FORUMS > The Sin Bin > Scottish Referendum |
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| Personally I love Scotland and the fact that almost monthly I get £200 + for every visit there has got nothing at all to do with it, October and November are already booked...
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Club Coach | 7343 | |
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Oct 2004 | 20 years | |
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| Quote: The Chair Maker "Former St.Helens council leader Marie Rimmer has been arrested in Scotland on charges of assault, outside a polling station while campaigning for people to vote no to independence.
She is also the selected Labour candidate for the St.Helens south constituency in the forthcoming general election
Make of this what you will. Doesn't look good though, and should finish her political career.
It won't finish her, she'll make yet another comeback. I wonder what happened to the cushy quango she was given when she stepped aside to parachute in Woodward as PPC? Personally I think she should have settled with that, as she was lucky she got to make a comback after she [idecided[/i to [istep down [/ifrom the St.Helens MBC leadership the first time she held it. I'd like to say the people of St.Helens deserve better, but they really don't!
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International Chairman | 6038 | No Team Selected |
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Apr 2002 | 23 years | |
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| Quote: Kelvin's Ferret "Without rehashing what has already been said about Labour's West Lothian Question problems, a fair settlement could leave them with serious problems. England is the largest and most dominant part of the UK, which means that a potential future Labour administration would become a lame duck on some major issues and votes if it actually accepted a fair and honest settlement for England.
I don't think we need another layer of English government, I just think we need to exclude MPs from non-English constituencies from votes which are devolved outside of England. The argument that it makes those excluded MPs "2nd Class" is just mendacious rubbish. If it is really that important to have daylight between UK issues and devolved issues then the English MPs could sit in another building when these issues are in session (although it is somewhat wasteful it is less wasteful than a full blown layer of government). In theory it would be nice to move the English sessions out of London to somewhere like Birmingham that would just be an excuse to ratchet up expenses and London is the capital of England even if it actually culturally rather different to the rest of England.'"
The masochist in me is looking forward to Clegg announcing that he has entered into a coalition with Labour in the UK building and a coalition with the Tories in the English buiding
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International Board Member | 37503 | |
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Apr 2003 | 22 years | |
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| Quote: WIZEB "I've travelled around Europe fairly extensivelly over the years.
The Scots I've found by and large are made pretty welcome it's the Little Englanders that they tend to despise.'"
yup
I love Scotland, haven't had chance to visit for a long time.
Will never forget turning up in full wet weather gear for a "trip to the islands" in a pub in Ardrossan, only to be told to sit down, given a pail of mussels and a single of each of a selection of island malts!
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Player Coach | 2359 | |
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Nov 2005 | 19 years | |
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International Chairman | 6038 | No Team Selected |
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Apr 2002 | 23 years | |
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| Quote: Hull White Star "Salmond has quit.
I wouldn't be surprised to see him back in the House of Commons next year. He tends to go where he thinks he can have the most impact and, after the referendum, that will not be Holyrood. He'll want to make himself a thorn in the side of the new government, constantly attacking them for not keeping their "vow".
I can see the SNP having a real go at Labour at the general election, accusing Milliband and Brown of conning the electorate. A posse of new SNP MP's led by Salmond constantly pushing for more devolution.
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International Star | 5202 | |
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Apr 2012 | 13 years | |
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| Thank god for the good people of Scotland for the no vote . If they had gone the other way england would have been in the grip of the conservatives for a long time !!! Thank you to Scotland and your good people
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Moderator | 14395 | No Team Selected |
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Dec 2001 | 23 years | |
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| Quote: Kelvin's Ferret "It's interesting because the whole Yes campaign was based on bribes and snake oil and it worked remarkably well, huge numbers of people fell for the promise that everyone could have their cake and eat it no matter how nonsensical it was on a practical level, and they even got people to swallow the line that gaping inconvenient holes in the argument was just the bias of critics. It was at times quite like believing there are faries at the bottom of the garden, that it doesn't stack up doesn't matter, what matters is that it sounds nice.
But Labour have a real problem now, the public awareness of the West Lothian question is at an all time high, getting it to go away this close to a general election will be hard. The Conservatives need to be clever and inextricably link greater devolution for Scotland to greater devolution for England, so if Labour tries to block a fairer settlement for England it also hurts them in Scotland. Of course Labour could go along with a fairer settlement for England in the hope of securing an outright victory in the next general election and then simply renege on it and say "we lied, tough luck", it may actually be the only practical course. Of course the Conservative leadership has a problem in that it doesn't really want decentralisation of power, although there's been a long narrative of "localism" in practice in practice it has meant giving local authorities the power do what central government wants them to do.'"
The Tories are already saying they will link further devolution for Scotland to a settlement for England which basically means on English MP's voting for laws that affect England (they don't go into detail about Wales and NI , not that I have seen anyway). Salmond has already accused Cameron (not Labour) of lying over promises of further devolution as he has now said he is linking the two. It's Cameron's idea and Labour blocking it will go well in Scotland but not so well in UKIP-marginal constituencies in England where this simple message will go down well.
However English MP's voting for laws that affect England is typical Tory back of fag packet stuff and far more worthy of Farage and UKIP than it is a well thought out policy.
If you implement it you effectively break up the Union. Why? Well if Scottish MP's can't vote on matters that affect England we could never have a Scottish MP as a government minister, PM or chancellor ever again and if we are still supposed to be in a Union with a UK-wide government with MP's from all parts of it sat in Westminster this is clearly unworkable.
If it happened England would dominate the Union politically as there could only ever be an English PM, Chancellor and Home secretary etc. You disenfranchise the Scots from the ultimate seats of UK government, which is basically removing them from the Union.
A fairer settlement for England is one thing but English MP's voting for laws that affect England is populism not a sensible or workable policy. As it may well appeal to UKIPpers as I implied above I can see Cameron going for it to head off backbench revolt in his own party over further powers to Scotland and the UKIP threat. I am sure he'd view those two objectives as far more important than actually sitting down and working something as complex as this issue out properly for the good of country.
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International Chairman | 14845 | No Team Selected |
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International Star | 3853 | |
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Dec 2010 | 14 years | |
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| Quote: Dally "So has Salmond unleashed sectarianism?
No..... That type of nonsense has been going on for years every time that Celtic and Rangers play each other - You can see by the photos that its just a bunch of bladdered football fans goading one another.
There are idiots on both sides, but the Rangers fans especially, with their Union flag waving, are particularly nauseating.... Awful bunch, they make you ashamed to be British and are a reason why it might have been preferable to get shut of them.
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International Star | 322 | No Team Selected |
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May 2014 | 11 years | |
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| Quote: DaveO "The Tories are already saying they will link further devolution for Scotland to a settlement for England which basically means on English MP's voting for laws that affect England (they don't go into detail about Wales and NI , not that I have seen anyway). Salmond has already accused Cameron (not Labour) of lying over promises of further devolution as he has now said he is linking the two. It's Cameron's idea and Labour blocking it will go well in Scotland but not so well in UKIP-marginal constituencies in England where this simple message will go down well.
However English MP's voting for laws that affect England is typical Tory back of fag packet stuff and far more worthy of Farage and UKIP than it is a well thought out policy.
If you implement it you effectively break up the Union. Why? Well if Scottish MP's can't vote on matters that affect England we could never have a Scottish MP as a government minister, PM or chancellor ever again and if we are still supposed to be in a Union with a UK-wide government with MP's from all parts of it sat in Westminster this is clearly unworkable.
If it happened England would dominate the Union politically as there could only ever be an English PM, Chancellor and Home secretary etc. You disenfranchise the Scots from the ultimate seats of UK government, which is basically removing them from the Union.
A fairer settlement for England is one thing but English MP's voting for laws that affect England is populism not a sensible or workable policy. As it may well appeal to UKIPpers as I implied above I can see Cameron going for it to head off backbench revolt in his own party over further powers to Scotland and the UKIP threat. I am sure he'd view those two objectives as far more important than actually sitting down and working something as complex as this issue out properly for the good of country.'"
All 3 parties made the vow. Gordon Brown was the one to make all the promises in the days before the vote.
It is impossible on an intellectual or democratic basis to devolve further powers to Scotland without a reduction in the influence they have on matters that do not concern Scotland. Or without a more formal parliamentary set up for the English.
Cameron has rightly thrown the English, Welsh & NI'ers in to mix post result. It's a card no one expected him tp play & really does leave Labour & the Lib Dems in an awkward position. He can now push to get more powers drawn up for Scotland & really play on any delays by Labour & the Lib Dems in agreeing. Each of the three are not in agreement about what powers should be handed over.
This will play into the hands of the pro-independence & SNP.
With just 1 MP in Scotland, he has nothing to lose from being even more unpopular. If the other two don't go along with him, they have plenty of seats to lose in 2015 & MSP's in 2016.
Cameron does have to be seen to give something away to the English & address the West Lothian question. He has a real double pronged threat from UKIP to blunt & has to be very careful.
Other than what is in the 2012 Scotland Act, there is nothing to say what will be drawn up for future devolution, and it is a massive job to get anything done before purdah.
Fascinating times.
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International Star | 322 | No Team Selected |
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May 2014 | 11 years | |
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| Quote: Chris28 "I can't see anything in the text that states it can't be repealed or amended at some point before that, and acts of parliament can be changed when the flavour of government changes anyway. That clause about the committee suggests that it is a review of the operation of the act that must happen (if the act is still law) no earlier than 2020.
Its a moot point anyway, I can't see any government giving up the chance for 5 years in power once they have it.'"
It can't be repealed until the review & a vote. The HoL wanted an amendment whereby the Act did not have to be accepted by a new parliament following an election. This was knocked back, with the trade off being the 2020 review.
In June this year Lord Grocott sponsored a private members bill to repeal the Act. Won't get anywhere until the review.
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International Star | 322 | No Team Selected |
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May 2014 | 11 years | |
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| Quote: Big Graeme "This government can not bind the next to any legislation, that clause in the act would have been blown out of the water by any decent brief.'"
Yes it can, and it has. That's because the HoL amendment to the Bill to include a clause where a new parliament could drop the Act was rejected. Instead, this is where the 2020 review was introduced to the Bill. There will be 2 fixed 5 year terms before the Act can be repealed or amended.
Once the 2020 election has been held the Act can be amended repealed in readiness for the 2025 election.
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| Parliament can repeal any Act at any time.
All that part of the Act does is say there must be a committee setup at the specified time to make recommendations on the Act.
Parliament can still repeal the Act if it wished to.
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| Quote: Him "Parliament can repeal any Act at any time.
All that part of the Act does is say there must be a committee setup at the specified time to make recommendations on the Act.
Parliament can still repeal the Act if it wished to.'"
dweeb doesn't seem to understand basic politics/government.
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