At last a thread which isn't about whether there was a second gunman on the grass knoll and all that crap.

I'm firmly in the leave camp.

Whereas I consider what is written and said (from such sources) then form my own opinion.

So do I. But there is no question to opine on - you seemed to say work and benefits were mutually exclusive. The main thing that govt is concerned with is working family tax credits!!

The obsession with this question is utterly ridiculous.

[iAre people so vain as to think a choice whose ramifications are as serious as the media would have us believe would be offered to YOU?[/i



If staying or leaving were this important the decision would be taken out of your hands completely - see Obama's bailout of the banks in the wake of sub-prime (this despite losing two votes in the House of Representatives) or his signing up to TTIP.

Suffice to say that if I vote to leave Europe it won't be over the jurisdiction of the European Court, asylum seekers, strengthening Britain's borders or questionable economic data.

My complaint is largely to do with the EU being the Nazi superstate Hitler sought from the very beginning writ large by a living Nazi (Walter Hallstein) who funneled countless riches to his Nazi pals living in exile in South America (including Klaus Barbie, Josef Mengele, Adolf Eichmann, Otto Skorzeny, "Gestapo" Mueller and - likely - Martin Boorman) whilst for three decades they systematically brutalized that entire continent.

So far on Twitter I have seen not one positive reason to stay in from the in campaign - just some imaginary disasters of leaving. There are lots of positive reasons to leave though.

Some people, especially on the left, cite the "social model" as a reason to stay. That is plain daft because Germany can now see that the EU is inefficient and unsustainable in its present form from an economic perspective. The first thing to go will be workers rights / welfare. Furthermore, with mass immigration the seeds of a lurch to the Far Right have been well and truly sown. Two generations of Brits lost their lives fighting against German domination of Europe and this generation welcomes it. When that domination aligns with a shift to the far right the UK will be at the forefront of that alongside Germany, if we don't get out now. A frightening thought for a whole continent.

I have yet to make my mind up on whether to thought in or out.

Yes there are many things wrong with the EU, then on the other hand there are many good things that the EU have given us. It IMO this is the most important decision the people of this GREAT nation will have to make in many a year.

One thing I am sure is that if we vote to leave we will not have full control of our our borders. We have no way of stopping people jumping on a ferry from France to Ireland & then crossing the Irish/NI border as that is governed by a separate treaty.

Also the Scots will then have another vote on independence. I have many Scottish friends who voted No last time, but would vote Yes if we left the EU.

Also how would leaving the EU effect the structure of Superleague & the Catalans Dragons?

I suggest you alter your avatar then, because even Thatcher wanted to stay in.

Maybe you could change it to Farage?

Just a thought; if the million or so Brits who live and work in Europe were deported back here how much would it cost in benefits etc to house all these unemployed homeless people. Similarly, how much would it cost to deport all the EU nationals who are over here?

In addition, why do the out campaign selectively only mention how much we pay to the EU and never how much we get back (approx. 60% of what we pay in)?

Personally I am for staying in because of employment rights, securing manufacturing jobs, human rights and security at home and internationally.

It roughly costs for each person £1 a day. So with 4 in our household currently and only me earning, that's about £1,500 a year out if net income. Even if other parts of UK get 40 over cent back it's still expensive. What do I get? As far as I see a lot if regulations that make working as a self-employed person hardly worth the effort any more!

You seem to be of the quite frankly deluded opinion that if we leave the EU the cost you cite will vanish.

Do you honestly think Britain can negotiate a Free Trade agreement with the EU for access to the European Single Market and NOT pay to help fund institutions that run it and regulate it?

Do you honestly think the rules and regulations that apply to the European Single Market won't apply to us if we want to trade with them? Or that, just for us, the EU will relax the rule on the Free Movement of Labour?

If so I'd love to know why because it is quite clearly a nonsensical view to take.

Why? Just charge German exporters for part of the costs of running our government.

Out. Sick of all the time it wastes. The last summit was it for me. Lots of well dressed politico's doing what they do best - serving their own self interest and making sure they all looked like tough guys for their home crowds.
It's a circus of epic proportions. The political elite of Europe can carry on telling us all what's best while we see the rise of the far right and ordinary people become more extreme because nobody in charge is listening to them.
The SNP are using "fear" (what a surprise) of leaving the EU to bring back independence to the table (that ship sailed guys - once in a generation). I guess they'd need massive EU subsidies to support their non existent economy until/if the oil price rises.

I don't care that the UKIP racists (take a look at some of their prominent supporters on Twitter) and some of the biggest rsoles in the country are also wanting to leave. I can't help that. Frankly, it's bad enough that those to33ers in Westminster try and run our lives, without having the Greek jokers, the French pinheads, the f******g Germans et al all having their say as well (and I mean their politicians not the people).

Peace is great, the human rights act is awesome, we should keep the good bits.

DHM - I think that imagery and associated complete sense of detachment from the reality of life was my biggest problem with the EU.

It reminds me a lot of Common People - "You're amazed that they exist". Just replace the rich Greek student with Eurocrats and MEPs.

We're being scare mongered to stay IN. For that reason I'm voting OUT.

I guess it is an enormous organization and you are bound to lose touch a little with what's happening on the street, but it's ridiculous now.
For some it's a social experiment, but they are so insulated from the effects it simply doesn't matter to them if it fails or succeeds. For others it's a place they can go to score points at home - Cameron came back like he'd cured cancer this week. I didn't think he could get any more puffed up with self importance but I was wrong on that one. The balloon soon deflated though when Boris stuck the knife in (by the way Boris, if we want to increase trade with the rest of the world outside Europe we are going to have to f******g go there - so stop bitching about a 3rd runway at Heathrow - CDG has 4, Frankfurt has 4, Schiphol has 6 etc.. etc..).