An interesting couple of articles. It would be good for a Paxman type to have a go at the "hate preachers" but equally it would go a long way to defusing the issue if the points made in the huff post article were put to the mainstream Muslim religious leaders in the UK.

Completely agree.

If that's correct about the idea of jihad being so mainstream, then it's not difficult to see that that lessens the distance, if you will, that needs to be bridged for radicalisation/brainwashing.

On the other piece, I rather liked the idea, posited (not by me) via Twitter, that David Mitchell would be able to do that sort of an interview rather well.

It comes and goes, moves around I suppose.

Quite so, Southern Spain has also absorbed and is enriched by much of the Moorish culture in terms of architecture, decor and cuisine.

The Celts are a bit of an enigma: they had a culture that is often overlooked mainly because they were, as far as we know, illiterate but also because of the "barbarian" tag used by the Romans. It is thought that they had a sophisticated level of maths, astronomy and an appreciation of nature.

Their "knot" artwork of sinuous form is every bit as complex as Islamic tile patterns and is studied by modern mathematicians.

They mined and worked precious metals (and were very good at it) had sophisticated trade links and a road system that stetched from Ireland into Europe.

I'm not claiming they were better than "anyone" just that there was more to their culture than they are given credit for.

... and underlines the richness of overlaid layers of cultural influences.

I wonder what Baha Mousa's family makes of it all

NO!!!!

THERE SHOULD ONLY BE ONE CULTURE!

So spaketh the word of Dally, and I think we all know what that one culture should be, problem is, and Dally doesn't know this yet, but the perceived "English" culture is a isation of everything else that has been mentioned on these last two pages, including Celtic & Nordic design and French architecture.

As are most cultures.

You sound like a Wigan fan.

I should have put Wiganers on that list of exotic cultures, the things that their women do with two knitting needles and a ball of red and a ball of white wool has to be seen to be believed.

Nott forgetting the famous curtain twitching rich culture of the Home Counties.

A brilliant and obvious suggestion in the Independent article - suffocation of extremism by self-engendered ridicule. To say nothing of the opposite effect that would be manifested if Warsi and May had their way - the inevitable propelling of the suppressed evil voice into a state of misguided pre-eminence.

The jihad article is illuminating. While it is undoubted that the vast majority of Muslims are peace-loving, there is an apparent reluctance by Imams to firstly admit that terror crimes [iare[/i being committed in the name of Islam and secondly to denounce armed jihad when such crimes are perpetuated. Jihad undoubtedly has many definitions, but the form that we see manifesting in incidents such as Woolwich, 7/7, Boston etc. is combative and is happening today.

Muslims like Tarek Fatah and Maajid Nawaz who are not afraid to speak the truth should be lauded. Instead, the British authorities tiptoe around the notion that the rotten worm that is militant Islamism does exist and does indeed have it's roots in Sharia law and Islam. Why do they?

Mr Fatah would be the perfect interviewer of Choudary on national telly.

slightly OT but I'm astonished one of the do gooder brigade hasn't started a thread today calling mark bridger a poor lamb, who doesn't really deserve a prison sentence and needs to be rehabilitated back into society as soon as possible...

If you can find a second brain cell, try and rub it together with the first one. You never know – something might even happen.