Did you read the manifesto? Based on the above, I don't think you have.

Maybe its changed since the leak yesterday. Maybe the party realised what a load of nonsense it was.

On the BBC news just now, Corbyns thread for today is getting the 'I'm not a pacifist'!!! message out. Shambolic

I agree that, modern politics is just as much about presentation as content and in a media driven world, it will always be the case.
Unfortunately, the Labour grandee's just dont consider such things.

Labour, unfortunately have so little appeal to any aspirational families.
Yes, they want to protect the poorest in society and rightly so but, that is where their policies stop and with all the items on the wish list (Manifesto), where is the money going to come from.
They say that it has been costed but, they dont make any allowance for how people and businesses will react to their proposals, which would impact very heavily on their tax receipts.

If you propose to tax businesses or people more heavily, they will usually looks at ways to reduce their tax burden.
This could have the effect of prompting some businesses to invest in capital, which could be a good thing but, its more likely that they will find other ways to "lose" a chunk of their profit.
Small businesses will put "excess" profits into pension funds or, look at ways that they finance property etc.
They certainly wont just roll over and give an extra "wedge" to the chancellor.
We have already seen how "successful" the largest organisations are in not paying tax.

Well, he needs to get that message out because people like you still believe he would "de-militarise the UK" to quote your post a few up.

It's a funny old world we live in where a leader & party standing for fairness and equality is derided for doing so. Yeh, what an absolute baSt@rd he is, trying to make sure everyone is given similar opportunities regardless of wealth, sex, race etc.

As you've carefully read the draft manifesto, specifically what things do you disagree with Wire-Quin? And can you explain why you disagree.

Let's start with raising taxes on high earners, raising corporation tax ....... There's 2 that will send you southern hating northerners into a spin

Wrencat sums it up here



We have to accept that we live in a world where we are not equal for many reasons.

It's not about being equal, it's about having equal opportunity and a society that's as fair as it possibly can be. What a person does with that opportunity is down to them of course, but a person should not be hindered because of what they are and closing that gap can only be a good thing surely?

I'll refrain from making any remarks like you've done (like "Southern Hating Northerners"icon_wink.gif, as that doesn't really achieve anything, but yes, raising tax for higher earners and raising corporation tax... My thoughts on that are since the recession and the policy of austerity and cut backs, it's the average person that has ultimately footed the bill and suffered the most because of it, whilst the high-earning minority have continued to flourish in that time. I agree with the policy of getting the rich to pay their fair share, and putting the money back into vital services that are struggling.

Why do you disagree with it? Do you not think that certain services need better funding, and if you agree, where else should the funds come from? Will you personally be worse off financially under Labour's policy? They're genuine questions to try and understand your position on it.

The top 10 % of earners contribute something like 50 % of the taxes and still Corbyn wants more. Its just headline grabbing stuff.

We have a tax system that rises as you go through certain thresholds, why does it need to be raised again. Higher earners pay both a higher % and higher actuals so why more?? We can't and shouldn't all earn the same which ultimately is what happens(ish). Forget the 0.1% of High earners such as CEOs of big companies and owners of successful companies. Why do we need to continuously thrash those who have achieved.

His hatred of successful individuals and business is bizarre if not worrying. These are the people and organisations that create employment for the rest of us. Don't chase them away because of bitterness

So he said growth would drop from 2% to 1.9%. Inflation will be caused by exchange rate differences if the currency settles down then the inflation differential i.e. 2.7% to 2% wage inflation will be reduced.

Hardly armageddon.

In a similar way that big business and entrepreneurs create jobs, they're also provided a skilled, healthy, educated workforce to utilise to be able to do it. Without one, the other will struggle to flourish and visa-versa.

Why should they pay more... because they can afford to pay more. There's no "bitterness" or "hatred", that's just you throwing in sensationalist remarks again.

There are key services that are massively underfunded in the country, how do you propose the funds are raised in order to fund them properly? or wouldn't you?

No it wouldn't - the assumptions as to the way its funded is completely bonkers. It assumes you can increase CT by several % points and your take will increase. What do you think very sophisticated business leaders are going to do just lay down and take it? Labour may get a gain year 1 but they will see diminishing returns thereafter. The idea that you will get the likes Apple/Google to pay the correct amount of tax is crazy they are already paying the legal correct amount of CT. That is the issue about CT its an international arrangement and unless you change the global rules you are stuffed.

No, clearly not, armageddon but, the first significant shift in interest rates, which will have to change as soon as inflation starts to increase, will cause panic amongst the masses, many of whom have over borrowed due to the ridiculously low interest rates, which are taken as the norm.

And in the middle of all the rhetoric, spin and misguided proclamations by so-called Labour supporters - the IFS have quietly announced that the Labour manifesto has been fully costed and stacks up...

An earlier poster nailed it - the measures of societal success we seem so obsessed with are just one part of the story; GDP, rates of employment etc - what we seem to forget are the more important underpinnings such as equality of opportunity, education, wellbeing, support when people hit difficulties in life - the latter create the former, and to forget that and try to run a country as if it were a corporation, is an error.

If nothing changes, everything stays the same.

what percentage of manifesto pledges actually go through once elected party get in?

Provided the CT revenues flow in at the required levels - that is a huge if

As is believing that May will bring immigration down to the 10's of 000's, despite failing to do so after 3 previous commitments; or that pensions will go up in line with inflation, despite her refusing to say otherwise; or that personal taxation will not go up under a Tory government, despite her refusal to confirm or deny; of that Brexit will be good for Britain - surely the biggest if of all?

That's kind of how it works - parties make promises and commitments in their manifesto - and its up to the public to decide if they believe they are realistic and achievable? I guess the big difference in this era of media controlled messaging, is that the Labour commitments are held to much higher levels of scrutiny pre-election, than the Tory ones.