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Whatever the result, whoever wants to win the election next May is going to have to appease the Scots, soothe the English & battle against a surge in support for UKIP.

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Quote: LeagueDweeb "Whatever the result, whoever wants to win the election next May is going to have to appease the Scots, soothe the English & battle against a surge in support for UKIP.'"



well not exactly, if the vote goes to the Yes party today then there's a good chance that there won't be a UK general election next year and even if there is then the soon-to-be English parliament isn't going to need to appease the Scots over anything.

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Quote: JerryChicken "well not exactly, if the vote goes to the Yes party today then there's a good chance that there won't be a UK general election next year and even if there is then the soon-to-be English parliament isn't going to need to appease the Scots over anything.'"


We have a fixed term Parliament. That cannot be changed. The Scots will have to be appeased. A yes vote will mean negotiations to make it as clean a settlement as possible. In the event of a No, enough further devolution to shoot the independence fox.

There won't be an English Parliament. If the Scots do vote Yes, there is still a UK left. If they do vote Yes, the 59 Scottish constituencies represented in Westminster should be erased from the UK's political map prior to the 2015 General Election.

If they vote No & more powers are devolved to Holyrood, the vested interests of the Westminster elite, particularly those parties who will lose most seats, will deflect the West Lothian question through devolving some powers to the regions.

40 less Labour MP's last time would have meant a Conservative government. Going forward, this is a huge problem for the Labour party, which is why, apart from his recent visit, Cameron has been happy for them to do all the work for the Better Together campaign.

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Quote: LeagueDweeb "We have a fixed term Parliament. That cannot be changed. '"


Yes it can

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Quote: WIZEB "Think I'll tune into the Jon Snow hosted live debate at 10pm on C4 tonight.
Michelle Mone is a panellist so it'll make one of our Sin-Binners happy.
Whatever it takes for MM to get on. A complete slunt.

Interesting to see Andy Murray add his weight to the YES vote. Will that finally convince the strawberries and cream brigade that he IS Scottish after all?

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Quote: cod'ead "Yes it can'"

In the same way it was changed to fixed term parliaments after the last election you mean?

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Quote: LeagueDweeb "
40 less Labour MP's last time would have meant a Conservative government. Going forward, this is a huge problem for the Labour party, which is why, apart from his recent visit, Cameron has been happy for them to do all the work for the Better Together campaign.'"


It rarely has been in the past. I think it is only one, possibly two past Labour victories have relied on the Scottish MP's.

It has also worked the other way. Scotland returned 22 Tory MP's in 1979 and in Major v Kinnock election it returned 11 when Major won with a majority of 21. Had Scotland been as solid Labour as you imply Major would have lost that election. Scotland until recently has never been a shoe in for Labour.

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Quote: WIZEB "They have one serving MP returned to Westminster from the 2010 General Election!'"


The difference in this referendum is that each vote counts equally.

May 2010 general election in Scotland

Conservatives - 412,855 votes = 1 seat
Lib Dems - 465,471 votes = 11 seats
SNP - 491,386 votes = 6 seats
Labour -1,035,528 votes = 41 seats

Hardly fair but there you go. So Salmond's SNP only represents about half of those that voted for the present government yet he continues to go on about independence guaranteeing a change in direction.

If this referendum had only included the above voters then the NOs would have won hands down. However this time there are another 1.9 million who have registered to vote including many school kids aged 16 and over and many adults who are not political and could be voting just emotionally with the heart not the head which is why this could be on a knife edge. Because the pollsters have no similar history to compare they are as much in the dark about the result as the rest of us.

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Isn't it fairly simple in the case of a Yes vote? There's a 2015 UK General Election as normal. Then whenever Scotland actually becomes independent the Scottish MP's no longer are MP's as they have no constituency. So they are removed from a Parliament and you're left with what remains.

Might be tricky if it's a Labour government elected in 2015 who's majority is reliant on Scottish MP's but the parliament can still be dissolved and another election called if necessary.

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Quote: cod'ead "Any Scots who think Salmond is a socialist are in for a very rude awakening.

He views TTIP as a "massive opportunity for Scotland", all they need do is look at how he bent over while Donald Trump dry-bummed him. He's already been called out over his lies on safeguarding the NHS.

Wee Eck is an obnoxious little upstart but I can't blame Scots for swallowing his rhetoric, we've got plenty South of the border who are falling for Farage's bollox too'"


rlThere is a very good article hererl that offers an opinion on what will happen in Scotland if there is a yes vote.

Most people voting Yes have no idea what it will bring them because the Yes campaign have kept it so vague. It is basically a "jam tomorrow" message.

The alliance of disparate groups for Yes often put forward as a positive thing by the Yes side tells you there are going to be some VERY disillusioned Yes voters very quickly. As the article I linked to points out you have the Socialist Workers Party (who want a socialist utopia) in bed with Business for Scotland (who will want everything the Tories in the UK want) and the Greens (anti-fossil fuel) alongside the SNP (who want to extract as much oil as possible).

Yet the message has been, vote Yes, ditch the Tories and voila a new socially responsible Scottish state will emerge.

This is just not going to happen. There is going to be same political fighting in Scotland as there is in every other western country.

Some nationalists will argue that is fine because whatever the outcome it will have been Scotland not Westminster that decided it but that is not what has been promised.

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Quote: DaveO "It rarely has been in the past. I think it is only one, possibly two past Labour victories have relied on the Scottish MP's.

'"


Three actually 1964, 1974 & 2010

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Quote: Him "Isn't it fairly simple in the case of a Yes vote? There's a 2015 UK General Election as normal. Then whenever Scotland actually becomes independent the Scottish MP's no longer are MP's as they have no constituency. So they are removed from a Parliament and you're left with what remains.

Might be tricky if it's a Labour government elected in 2015 who's majority is reliant on Scottish MP's but the parliament can still be dissolved and another election called if necessary.'"


I would have thought so. In any case I think the timetable for independence occurring is ludicrously optimistic in my opinion at around 18 months so it would be quite feasible for that to go out to four or five years. So a UK election could be called to coincide with the break up of the UK.

It would also be interesting to see what happens with constituencies in England, Wales and NI. The Tories had this bonkers idea to make them 100K voters in size based on who was [iregistered to vote[/i, not the population which would have meant some geographically huge constituencies. I think there will be calls for a redrawing of boundaries rather than just the rest of the UK going with the simple idea of just ditching the Scottish MP's.

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Quote: Lord Elpers "Three actually 1964, 1974 & 2010'"


2010? Labour didn't win in 2010!

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Quote: DaveO "2010? Labour didn't win in 2010!'"


True of course but in 2010 Cameron's Tories would have had an overall majority so the election results would have been different without Scottish seats which shows the importance if Labour were to lose these.

Even with a win for the Union it is most likely that the give aways promised in the DevoMax2 will bring an unstoppable demand for change in the rest of the UK with an increasing possibility of an English Parliament with the West Lothian question finally being resolved.

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Quote: LeagueDweeb "We have a fixed term Parliament. That cannot be changed.'"



What is perfectly clear now about the whole Scottish devolution vote is that none of the political party's seem to have considered what may happen if the Scots vote Yes, hence the panic emanating from Westminster last week with not so carefully leaked reports that "senior" MPs were "investigating" how the 2015 general election could be postponed until Scotland is totally devolved - they were still working on Salmonds target of 2016 - this is but one of many press reports from last week that you may have missed rlhttps://www.theguardian.com/politics/2014/sep/03/calls-to-postpone-uk-general-election-scots-independencerl

However, as with all things in this poll, nothing is planned, nothing is formalised, nothing has been considered, it looks like it could be the biggest cock-up in civil service history if they vote Yes.

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v
Featherstone
15:00
Widnes
v
Barrow
15:00
York
v
Doncaster
 Thu 17th Apr 2025
     National Rugby League 2024-R7
10:50
Manly
v
St.George
     Mens Super League XXX-R8
20:00
Wakefield
v
Castleford
 Fri 18th Apr 2025
     National Rugby League 2024-R7
07:05
Canterbury
v
Souths
11:00
Dolphins
v
Melbourne
       League One 2025-R6
14:00
Midlands
v
Crusaders
       Championship 2025-R7
15:00
Barrow
v
LondonB
15:00
Batley
v
Hunslet
15:00
Doncaster
v
Sheffield
15:00
Featherstone
v
York
15:00
Halifax
v
Bradford
15:00
Widnes
v
Oldham
       League One 2025-R6
15:00
Dewsbury
v
Newcastle
15:00
Rochdale
v
Swinton
15:00
Workington
v
Whitehaven
18:30
Keighley
v
Goole V
     Mens Super League XXX-R8
20:00
Hull FC
v
Hull KR
20:00
Wigan
v
St.Helens
20:00
Leeds
v
Huddersfield
 Sat 19th Apr 2025
     National Rugby League 2024-R7
08:30
NZ Warriors
v
Brisbane
10:35
Sydney
v
Penrith
     Mens Super League XXX-R8
20:00
Leigh
v
Warrington
20:00
Catalans
v
Salford
 Sun 20th Apr 2025
     National Rugby League 2024-R7
05:00
Gold Coast
v
Canberra
07:05
Newcastle
v
Cronulla
 Mon 21st Apr 2025
     National Rugby League 2024-R7
07:00
Wests
v
Parramatta
 Thu 24th Apr 2025
     National Rugby League 2024-R8
10:50
Brisbane
v
Canterbury
     Mens Super League XXX-R9
20:00
Warrington
v
St.Helens
20:00
Leeds
v
Hull KR
 Fri 25th Apr 2025
     National Rugby League 2024-R8
07:00
Sydney
v
St.George
09:05
NZ Warriors
v
Newcastle
11:10
Melbourne
v
Souths
     Mens Super League XXX-R9
20:00
Salford
v
Leigh
 Sat 26th Apr 2025
     National Rugby League 2024-R8
08:30
NQL Cowboys
v
Gold Coast
10:35
Penrith
v
Manly
     Mens Super League XXX-R9
15:00
Huddersfield
v
Castleford
17:30
Catalans
v
Wakefield
       Championship 2025-R8
18:00
Featherstone
v
Toulouse
 Sun 27th Apr 2025
     National Rugby League 2024-R8
05:00
Canberra
v
Dolphins
07:05
Wests
v
Cronulla
       League One 2025-R7
13:00
Cornwall
v
Keighley
14:30
Crusaders
v
Whitehaven
     Mens Super League XXX-R9
15:00
Hull FC
v
Wigan
       Championship 2025-R8
15:00
Barrow
v
Doncaster
15:00
Halifax
v
LondonB
15:00
Oldham
v
Bradford
15:00
Sheffield
v
Batley
15:00
York
v
Widnes
       League One 2025-R7
15:00
Dewsbury
v
Rochdale
15:00
Newcastle
v
Goole V
15:00
Workington
v
Swinton
 Fri 2nd May 2025
     National Rugby League 2024-R9
09:00
Cronulla
v
Parramatta
11:05
Sydney
v
Dolphins
       League One 2025-R8
20:00
Newcastle
v
Workington
 Sat 3rd May 2025
     National Rugby League 2024-R9
06:00
Souths
v
Newcastle
08:30
NZ Warriors
v
NQL Cowboys
10:45
Wests
v
St.George
     Mens Super League XXX-R10
15:00
Leigh
v
Catalans
       League One 2025-R8
15:00
Rochdale
v
Goole V
       Championship 2025-R9
17:00
LondonB
v
York
     Mens Super League XXX-R10
17:15
Hull KR
v
Salford
       Championship 2025-R9
18:00
Toulouse
v
Halifax
     Mens Super League XXX-R10
19:30
St.Helens
v
Leeds
 Sun 4th May 2025
     National Rugby League 2024-R9
04:50
Gold Coast
v
Canterbury
07:05
Penrith
v
Brisbane
09:25
Melbourne
v
Canberra
     Mens Super League XXX-R10
13:00
Huddersfield
v
Hull FC
       League One 2025-R8
13:00
Cornwall
v
Midlands
       Championship 2025-R9
15:00
Batley
v
Barrow
15:00
Bradford
v
Sheffield
15:00
Doncaster
v
Oldham
15:00
Hunslet
v
Widnes
       League One 2025-R8
15:00
Swinton
v
Crusaders
15:00
Whitehaven
v
Dewsbury
     Mens Super League XXX-R10
15:15
Wigan
v
Warrington
17:30
Castleford
v
Wakefield
 Thu 8th May 2025
     National Rugby League 2024-R10
10:50
Parramatta
v
Dolphins
 Fri 9th May 2025
     National Rugby League 2024-R10
09:00
Newcastle
v
Gold Coast
11:00
Souths
v
Brisbane
 Sat 10th May 2025
     National Rugby League 2024-R10
06:00
Canberra
v
Canterbury
08:30
St.George
v
NZ Warriors
10:35
NQL Cowboys
v
Penrith
       Championship 2025-R10
17:00
Oldham
v
Toulouse
 Sun 11th May 2025
     National Rugby League 2024-R10
05:00
Melbourne
v
Wests
07:05
Manly
v
Cronulla
       League One 2025-R9
14:30
Crusaders
v
Newcastle
       Championship 2025-R10
15:00
Batley
v
Bradford
15:00
Halifax
v
Doncaster
15:00
LondonB
v
Sheffield
15:00
Widnes
v
Featherstone
15:00
York
v
Hunslet
       League One 2025-R9
15:00
Dewsbury
v
Cornwall
15:00
Keighley
v
Workington
15:00
Rochdale
v
Midlands
15:00
Whitehaven
v
Goole V
 Thu 15th May 2025
     Mens Super League XXX-R11
20:00
St.Helens
v
Catalans
 Fri 16th May 2025
     National Rugby League 2024-R11
09:00
Newcastle
v
Parramatta
11:00
Canterbury
v
Sydney
     Mens Super League XXX-R11
20:00
Leeds
v
Hull FC
20:00
Wigan
v
Leigh
 Sat 17th May 2025
     National Rugby League 2024-R11
06:00
Dolphins
v
NZ Warriors
08:30
NQL Cowboys
v
Manly
10:35
Cronulla
v
Melbourne
     Mens Super League XXX-R11
15:00
Hull KR
v
Huddersfield
 Sun 18th May 2025
     National Rugby League 2024-R11
05:00
Brisbane
v
St.George
07:05
Canberra
v
Gold Coast
09:15
Wests
v
Souths
     Mens Super League XXX-R11
15:00
Wakefield
v
Warrington
17:30
Castleford
v
Salford
 Thu 22nd May 2025
     National Rugby League 2024-R12
10:50
Canterbury
v
Dolphins
     Mens Super League XXX-R12
20:00
Leigh
v
Hull FC
 Fri 23rd May 2025
     National Rugby League 2024-R12
11:00
Parramatta
v
Manly
       Championship 2025-R11
19:30
Sheffield
v
Hunslet
     Mens Super League XXX-R12
20:00
Huddersfield
v
St.Helens
20:00
Warrington
v
Hull KR
 Sat 24th May 2025
     National Rugby League 2024-R12
08:30
Penrith
v
Newcastle
10:35
Sydney
v
Cronulla
     Mens Super League XXX-R12
14:30
Castleford
v
Leeds
17:30
Catalans
v
Wigan
       Championship 2025-R11
18:00
Toulouse
v
Barrow
 Sun 25th May 2025
     National Rugby League 2024-R12
07:05
NZ Warriors
v
Canberra
       League One 2025-R10
14:00
Midlands
v
Whitehaven
     Mens Super League XXX-R12
15:00
Wakefield
v
Salford
       Championship 2025-R11
15:00
Bradford
v
Widnes
15:00
Doncaster
v
LondonB
15:00
Featherstone
v
Batley
15:00
Oldham
v
Halifax
       League One 2025-R10
15:00
Keighley
v
Crusaders
15:00
Rochdale
v
Newcastle
15:00
Swinton
v
Cornwall
15:00
Workington
v
Goole V
 Thu 29th May 2025
     Mens Super League XXX-R13
20:00
Huddersfield
v
Leigh
 Fri 30th May 2025
     National Rugby League 2024-R13
11:00
St.George
v
Newcastle
     Mens Super League XXX-R13
20:00
Hull KR
v
St.Helens
20:00
Salford
v
Wigan
 Sat 31st May 2025
     National Rugby League 2024-R13
06:00
Gold Coast
v
Melbourne
08:30
Gold Coast
v
Melbourne
08:30
NQL Cowboys
v
Wests
10:35
Manly
v
Brisbane
     Mens Super League XXX-R13
14:30
Leeds
v
Wakefield
       Championship 2025-R12
17:00
LondonB
v
Widnes
     Mens Super League XXX-R13
17:30
Catalans
v
Hull FC
       Championship 2025-R12
18:00
Batley
v
Toulouse
 Sun 1st Jun 2025
     National Rugby League 2024-R13
05:00
Souths
v
NZ Warriors
07:05
Penrith
v
Parramatta
09:15
Sydney
v
Canberra
       League One 2025-R11
13:00
Cornwall
v
Goole V
14:00
Midlands
v
Swinton
14:30
Crusaders
v
Rochdale
     Mens Super League XXX-R13
15:00
Warrington
v
Castleford
       Championship 2025-R12
15:00
Barrow
v
Featherstone
15:00
Doncaster
v
Bradford
15:00
Hunslet
v
Oldham
15:00
York
v
Sheffield
       League One 2025-R11
15:00
Newcastle
v
Keighley
15:00
Workington
v
Dewsbury
 Thu 5th Jun 2025
     National Rugby League 2024-R14
10:50
Newcastle
v
Manly
 Fri 6th Jun 2025
     National Rugby League 2024-R14
09:00
Melbourne
v
NQL Cowboys
11:00
Dolphins
v
St.George
 Sat 7th Jun 2025
     National Rugby League 2024-R14
07:00
Canterbury
v
Parramatta
08:30
Cronulla
v
NZ Warriors
10:35
Brisbane
v
Gold Coast
 Sun 8th Jun 2025
     National Rugby League 2024-R14
05:00
Canberra
v
Souths
07:05
Wests
v
Penrith
 Thu 12th Jun 2025
     National Rugby League 2024-R15
10:50
Cronulla
v
St.George
 Fri 13th Jun 2025
     National Rugby League 2024-R15
11:00
Gold Coast
v
Manly
       League One 2025-R12
19:00
Dewsbury
v
Goole V
     Mens Super League XXX-R14
20:00
Hull FC
v
Castleford
20:00
Hull KR
v
Catalans
 Sat 14th Jun 2025
     National Rugby League 2024-R15
08:30
Newcastle
v
Sydney
10:35
NQL Cowboys
v
Dolphins
     Mens Super League XXX-R14
15:00
Huddersfield
v
Wigan
17:30
Leeds
v
Warrington
 Sun 15th Jun 2025
     National Rugby League 2024-R15
07:05
Souths
v
Canterbury
     Mens Super League XXX-R14
14:30
Wakefield
v
Leigh
       League One 2025-R12
14:30
Crusaders
v
Midlands
     Mens Super League XXX-R14
15:00
Salford
v
St.Helens
       Championship 2025-R13
15:00
Barrow
v
Sheffield
15:00
Batley
v
Doncaster
15:00
Bradford
v
York
15:00
Featherstone
v
Hunslet
15:00
Widnes
v
Halifax
15:00
Toulouse
v
LondonB
       League One 2025-R12
15:00
Keighley
v
Rochdale
15:00
Swinton
v
Workington
15:00
Whitehaven
v
Cornwall
 Thu 19th Jun 2025
     Mens Super League XXX-R15
20:00
Castleford
v
Hull KR
 Fri 20th Jun 2025
     National Rugby League 2024-R16
11:00
Wests
v
Canberra
       Championship 2025-R14
19:45
Bradford
v
Batley
     Mens Super League XXX-R15
20:00
St.Helens
v
Leeds
20:00
Wakefield
v
Wigan
       Championship 2025-R14
20:00
Featherstone
v
Halifax
 Sat 21st Jun 2025
     National Rugby League 2024-R16
06:00
NZ Warriors
v
Penrith
08:30
Dolphins
v
Newcastle
10:35
Souths
v
Melbourne
     Mens Super League XXX-R15
15:00
Warrington
v
Huddersfield
17:30
Catalans
v
Leigh
       Championship 2025-R14
18:00
Toulouse
v
Oldham
 Sun 22nd Jun 2025
     National Rugby League 2024-R16
05:00
Brisbane
v
Cronulla
07:05
Sydney
v
NQL Cowboys
09:15
Parramatta
v
Gold Coast
       League One 2025-R13
13:00
Cornwall
v
Crusaders
14:00
Midlands
v
Goole V
     Mens Super League XXX-R15
15:00
Salford
v
Hull FC
       Championship 2025-R14
15:00
Hunslet
v
Barrow
15:00
Sheffield
v
Doncaster
15:00
Widnes
v
York
       League One 2025-R13
15:00
Dewsbury
v
Whitehaven
15:00
Swinton
v
Keighley
15:00
Workington
v
Newcastle
ALL SCORES PROVIDED BY RLFANS.COM (SETTINGS)
Matches on TV
Thu 13th Feb
SL
20:00
Wigan-Leigh
Fri 14th Feb
SL
20:00
Hull KR-Castleford
SL
20:00
Catalans-Hull FC
Sat 15th Feb
SL
15:00
Leeds-Wakefield
SL
17:30
St.Helens-Salford
Sun 16th Feb
SL
15:00
Huddersfield-Warrington
Thu 20th Feb
SL
20:00
Wakefield-Hull KR
Fri 21st Feb
SL
20:00
Warrington-Catalans
SL
20:00
Hull FC-Wigan
Sat 22nd Feb
SL
15:00
Salford-Leeds
SL
20:00
Castleford-St.Helens
Sun 23rd Feb
SL
14:30
Leigh-Huddersfield
Fri 28th Feb
SL
20:00
Huddersfield-Hull FC
SL
20:00
Hull KR-Salford
SL
20:00
Leigh-Catalans
Sat 1st Mar
SL
14:30
Wakefield-St.Helens
SL
21:30
Wigan-Warrington
Sun 2nd Mar
SL
15:00
Leeds-Castleford
Thu 6th Mar
SL
20:00
Hull FC-Leigh
Fri 7th Mar
SL
20:00
Castleford-Salford
This is an inplay table and live positions can change.
Mens Betfred Super League XXVIII ROUND : 1
 PLDFADIFFPTS
Wigan 29 768 338 430 48
Hull KR 29 731 344 387 44
Warrington 29 769 351 418 42
Leigh 29 580 442 138 33
Salford 28 556 561 -5 32
St.Helens 28 618 411 207 30
 
Catalans 27 475 427 48 30
Leeds 27 530 488 42 28
Huddersfield 27 468 658 -190 20
Castleford 27 425 735 -310 15
Hull FC 27 328 894 -566 6
LondonB 27 317 916 -599 6
This is an inplay table and live positions can change.
Betfred Championship 2024 ROUND : 1
 PLDFADIFFPTS
Wakefield 27 1032 275 757 52
Toulouse 26 765 388 377 37
Bradford 28 723 420 303 36
York 29 695 501 194 32
Widnes 27 561 502 59 29
Featherstone 27 634 525 109 28
 
Sheffield 26 626 526 100 28
Doncaster 26 498 619 -121 25
Halifax 26 509 650 -141 22
Batley 26 422 591 -169 22
Swinton 28 484 676 -192 20
Barrow 25 442 720 -278 19
Whitehaven 25 437 826 -389 18
Dewsbury 27 348 879 -531 4
Hunslet 1 6 10 -4 0
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