| FORUMS > The Sin Bin > How's the UK doing? |
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| Quote: Sal Paradise "What is the alternative?'"
I'm sure the people of Bolivia, Brazil, Paraguay, Venezuela (and other South American nations), will be interested to hear there are no alternatives to the capitalist model as laid down by the US & IMF.
I'm sure the innumerable relatives of people bombed, shot, tortured and/or murdered (by the US or US-backed proxies) in nations such as Chile, Cuba, Nicarague, Panama, Libya, Yugoslavia, Italy, Greece etc. will be interested to know they didn't live in functioning alternatives to the capitalist model as laid down by the US & IMF.
The problem isn't a lack of alternatives. The problem is the US won't tolerate any. |
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| Quote: El Barbudo "As Mugump said, capitalism did NOT deliver to the populace, it was legislation that did that ... and Cameron/Osborne are clearly not in favour of keeping those restraints as their party donors (in line with party ethos) are keen to get back to the golden days of situation a) above.'"
It's important to point out that not only did capitalism not deliver such benefits to the populace - it fought tooth-and-nail to oppose and suppress each and every one of them (often employing the most ruthless and brutal methods). |
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| International Chairman | 14522 | No
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Quote: Mugwump "It's important to point out that not only did capitalism not deliver such benefits to the populace - it fought tooth-and-nail to oppose and suppress each and every one of them (often employing the most ruthless and brutal methods).'"
... apart from, of course, the usual handful of more enlightened (often Quaker) employers.
(Just giving credit where it's due).
Like this chap, who recognised that legislation was the way to do it , otherwise those who incurred cost to their business and reduced the competitiveness of their business through their philanthropy would eventually go out of business, helping no-one.
www.calderdale.gov.uk/wtw/source ... elden.html
But still we see (as you say) fierce opposition from the blinkered captains of industry every time an improvement is proposed or introduced (e.g. the opposition when the minimum wage was introduced, the current calls to "repatriate" employment law from the EU etc etc).
I await Sal's response. |
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Quote: Mugwump "It's important to point out that not only did capitalism not deliver such benefits to the populace - it fought tooth-and-nail to oppose and suppress each and every one of them (often employing the most ruthless and brutal methods).'"
... apart from, of course, the usual handful of more enlightened (often Quaker) employers.
(Just giving credit where it's due).
Like this chap, who recognised that legislation was the way to do it , otherwise those who incurred cost to their business and reduced the competitiveness of their business through their philanthropy would eventually go out of business, helping no-one.
www.calderdale.gov.uk/wtw/source ... elden.html
But still we see (as you say) fierce opposition from the blinkered captains of industry every time an improvement is proposed or introduced (e.g. the opposition when the minimum wage was introduced, the current calls to "repatriate" employment law from the EU etc etc).
I await Sal's response. | |
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It will be interesting to see what happens in China now that labour costs are increasing, to the point that more UK companies are bringing manufacturing back here. Couple that with China's increased investment in Africa, the Chinese population aren't going to be too happy when they lose their jobs to black children, working on subsistence wages
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| International Chairman | 14522 | No
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| Feb 2002 | 23 years | |
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| Quote: cod'ead "It will be interesting to see what happens in China now that labour costs are increasing, to the point that more UK companies are bringing manufacturing back here. Couple that with China's increased investment in Africa, the Chinese population aren't going to be too happy when they lose their jobs to black children, working on subsistence wages'"
Funny isn't it, that since China has adopted capitalism, the West is less bothered about the shortfall of democracy in China and less critical of the still-all-ruling Communism there? |
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| May 2002 | 23 years | |
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| Quote: El Barbudo "... apart from, of course, the usual handful of more enlightened (often Quaker) employers.
(Just giving credit where it's due).
Like this chap, who recognised that legislation was the way to do it , otherwise those who incurred cost to their business and reduced the competitiveness of their business through their philanthropy would eventually go out of business, helping no-one...'"
Again, from the perspective of accuracy, one could point to the fascinating case of the first example of state pensions and sickness benefit etc – a creation of Bismarck in late 19th-century Prussia. It was enlightened, but also done to help the possibilities of a repeat of 1848. Which attitude and understanding seem strangely missing from anything we're seeing now. |
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| May 2002 | 23 years | |
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| Quote: cod'ead "It will be interesting to see what happens in China now that labour costs are increasing, to the point that more UK companies are bringing manufacturing back here. Couple that with China's increased investment in Africa, the Chinese population aren't going to be too happy when they lose their jobs to black children, working on subsistence wages'"
Investment being acquiring mineral rights. Canny mob, the Chinese. |
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Anyone seen Sal in the last day or so?
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| International Board Member | 14970 | No
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| Jun 2002 | 22 years | |
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| Quote: Mintball "Anyone seen Sal in the last day or so?'"
Lol. Well he made a post recently didnt he? So it's hibernation time for Sal and hope everyone forgets it. |
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| Feb 2006 | 19 years | |
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| International Star | 3605 | No
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| Jul 2012 | 12 years | |
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| Quote: Ajw71 "Great news hey Sinbinners.... ![]()
Of course it is, and not before time either.
The only slight problem with this, and its not to be dismissed because of it, is that the service sector in the main employs a huge number of agency staff on a casual basis especially during times when the employer calls the shots - its only when the imbalance tips towards the employees that contract conditions improve.
I have some experience of this being as my job involves a lot of liason with all of the UKs major staffing agencies and I visit such offices frequently - currently the bog standard service industry jobs like warehouse picking and FLT operators are still (in the main) on low or zero hour contracts, agencies can pull in as many candidates as they need to fill these posts at the moment, one sector that is currently in demand is HGV drivers, I confess to not knowing what the grades all represent but I was in a recruitment office the other week that specialises in placing drivers in companies and they had three agents ringing dozens of drivers phone numbers who were registered with them trying to get them placed in a contract for a major retailer, during the two hours I was in that office I only overheard them get one candidate to accept the rate and conditions they were offering, all of the others were either currently working or knew of better offers - thats the point at which ordinary working people (and not statisticians) will start to notice that this five year long recession is coming to an end.
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| Quote: JerryChicken "Of course it is, and not before time either.
The only slight problem with this, and its not to be dismissed because of it, is that the service sector in the main employs a huge number of agency staff on a casual basis especially during times when the employer calls the shots - its only when the imbalance tips towards the employees that contract conditions improve ...'"
And there is, in general, an increase in zero-hours contracts at present. |
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An Economist friend of my son's says the present signs of recovery are akin to a surgeon just about managing to stem the blood flowing from one bullet wound, when the patient has been shot with a machine gun.
He reckons that, barring a full scale war with us staying neutral, it will take 17 years, maybe longer, before any sense of normality returns, especially for the poorest in society. He went into a load of facts and figures as to why this is but my brain couldn't absorb them.
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| International Star | 3605 | No
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| Jul 2012 | 12 years | |
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| Quote: Ovavoo "An Economist friend of my son's says the present signs of recovery are akin to a surgeon just about managing to stem the blood flowing from one bullet wound, when the patient has been shot with a machine gun.
He reckons that, barring a full scale war with us staying neutral, it will take 17 years, maybe longer, before any sense of normality returns, especially for the poorest in society. He went into a load of facts and figures as to why this is but my brain couldn't absorb them.'"
I think Cameron himself has been quoted using 2020 as a turning point hasn't he ? |
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| Quote: JerryChicken "I think Cameron himself has been quoted using 2020 as a turning point hasn't he ?'"
I'm not sure if he did but when you consider what happened in the 1920's to the end of the 30's and then from mid 70's to the end of the millenium, we would appear to be in deep poo for some time to come. Just wonder where it's all going to end up. |
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