FORUMS > The Sin Bin > Leveson - squeaky bum time? |
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| Independent regulatory body to be set up by the press but they can't sit on it, legislation would only apply to the underpinning of this body and how it is answerable (presumably to prevent de-clawing over several years so we end up with another useless PCC) - not directly to the press - Leveson was specific that no direct controlling legislation to apply to the press itself. Included in the underpinning would actually be legislation to protect the freedom of the press.
If the press or elements decide not to comply then they will not be eligable to the arbitration section - this (carrott) will help prevent the sometimes huge legal bills the press can run up defending itself from libel. If you're not in the arbitration scheme then there is the (stick) threat of huge legal costs that could be un recoverable even in legal victory for a newspaper. Word from many editors is that they like the arbitration idea - big step forward.
The conclusions in a nutshell are that there should be an independent body - without any editors etc sitting on it (they can't be trusted to mark their own homework apparantly), that the body should be underpinned by legislation, that no legislation should be applied to press freedom apart from to protect it. There will be an arbitration scheme saving the press pretty impressive legal costs, or if someone decides to go it alone then they should expect massive legal bills every time they have to fend off a libel challenge.
On other topics, David Cameron and that other pratt who was the Culture Secretary are "clean" and the police are pretty much all angels, only a couple of bad apples etc. I guess he is a Judge and he doesn't want to upset his establishment too much.
I think the proposals sound reasonable. A truly independent body that can impose fines up to 1 million quid, a carrott or stick to induce press engagement and potentially settle libel cases with reduced legal costs for all, and legislation to make sure the independent body stays that way and is accountable so it hopefully remains effective. Add to that legal protection for a free press - which we all want and need.
Cameron, of course will do whatever the editors tell him. Without press support he's deader than the dead sea scrolls and Boris will be tory leader by the next election.
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| Quote: Anakin Skywalker "I do wonder exactly what are Dave and the press worried about?
It's not like Leveson is asking every piece has to be viewed by Ofcom before they go to press..'"
They are worried about where it may all end up in 20 or 30 years time.
Just think of other significant legislative changes that have occurred. For example, the change in retail opening hours. The significant change there was in allowing supermarkets to open on a Sundays, something that hadn't been allowed since supermarkets were first introduced to the UK, if memory serves. Within a matter of what, 20 years? We now have 24 hour shopping.
Another one would be allowing lawyers or gambling services to advertise. We're swamped now with irritating phone sales for PPI and every day we're bombarded by gambling ads. Both were significant changes in law because neither had been allowed to advertise up to that point and now we are swamped.
I think Cameron is right to be concerned. I also respect him for saying so because he will know that (a) he took the risk of things turning out against his preference when he commissioned the inquiry in the first place, and (b) he is flying in the face of the populist vote. Yet on this matter I think he has it right.
I'm sure it was the press which uncovered the expenses scandal (although I don't think it was the press which uncovered the phone hacking scandal, but I may be wrong there). The politicians are bound not to like the press at present for the expenses scandal reason alone. Yet if we legislate to regulate the press, who is to say that in 20 years' time the law will not have changed to the extent where the politicians are in fact in complete control of the press? We don't know that, we can't say. Is it worth the risk? I don't think it is. I would rather take the risk of more scandal and apply the laws already in place (and which are already being put to good use in regard to the phone hacking scandal) than open the can of worms that is legislative regulation of the press.
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What a good day. Leveson reports and is spot on.
And five people are charged re Operation Elveden. www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-20541126
Or, as Dave used to say to Rebekah: "LOL".
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What a good day. Leveson reports and is spot on.
And five people are charged re Operation Elveden. www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-20541126
Or, as Dave used to say to Rebekah: "LOL".
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| Quote: SaintsFan " Yet if we legislate to regulate the press, who is to say that in 20 years' time the law will not have changed to the extent where the politicians are in fact in complete control of the press? We don't know that, we can't say. Is it worth the risk? I don't think it is. I would rather take the risk of more scandal and apply the laws already in place (and which are already being put to good use in regard to the phone hacking scandal) than open the can of worms that is legislative regulation of the press.'"
Leveson specifically said that no regulation should apply to the press itself - apart from to confirm it's freedom. Legislation is only proposed to apply to the regulatory body. The PCC was a hopeless waste of time, this has to be avoided. I presume the legislation will be to make the regulatory body perform it's function consistantly and effectively.
However, I'm sure the newspapers will already be printing lies and mistruths for tomorrows headlines about how they simply won't stand for politicians legislating what they can and cannot print, this isn't Nazi Germany, Communist Russia etc...etc...etc. they will be fighting for our freedoms and we won't even have to thank them for it etc...etc..etc.
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| Don't really understand the outcome of the enquirey, but if todays front page of the Mirror is anything to go by, then, we'll end up with a press like they have in china, where only certain things will be allowed to be reported.
today's front page is yet again, another paedophile arrested/questioned. this never stopped the press, a few weeks ago, naming Glitter, Starr et al, yet I saw nothing on the news about it last night. Learned nothing from Lord McAlpine? tb
I'm afraid Cameron's responce was just a token jesture. Whatever Leverson recommended, will, uktimately, be followed and made law. Meaning the end of investigative journalism and stories like, mps fiddling expenses, paedos in high office being given carte blanche, celebrities tax dodging etc.
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| Quote: Live Wired "Don't really understand the outcome of the enquirey, but if todays front page of the Mirror is anything to go by, then, we'll end up with a press like they have in china, where only certain things will be allowed to be reported.
today's front page is yet again, another paedophile arrested/questioned. this never stopped the press, a few weeks ago, naming Glitter, Starr et al, yet I saw nothing on the news about it last night.
I'm afraid Cameron's responce was just a token jesture. Whatever Leverson recommended, will, uktimately, be followed and made law. Meaning the end of investigative journalism and stories like, mps fiddling expenses, paedos in high office being given carte blanche, celebrities tax dodging etc.'"
Looks like the tabloid spin has worked on you then. Quite where you get the "end to investigative journalism" from is beyond me but it certainly wasn't contained or even hinted at in Leveson's report.
Cameron has ordered the DCMS to come up with a bill to be presented to parliament. It's odds on that they will conjure up such draconian measures that even Mugabe may baulk at implimenting it. It has nothing to do with press freedoms and everything to do with continuing to fellate Rupert Murdoch. We currently suffer under a press that is owned by Victorian-era barons and is anything but free. At least Leveson would enshrine that freedom in statute and give protection to those journalists who may suffer from a need to toe the proprietors' line.
I see they're now dangling the carrot of Lord Chief Justice in front of Leveson, in the hope that he'll be inclined to abandon the remainder of his investigation.
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| Quote: Live Wired "Don't really understand the outcome of the enquirey, but if todays front page of the Mirror is anything to go by, then, we'll end up with a press like they have in china, where only certain things will be allowed to be reported.
today's front page is yet again, another paedophile arrested/questioned. this never stopped the press, a few weeks ago, naming Glitter, Starr et al, yet I saw nothing on the news about it last night. Learned nothing from Lord McAlpine? tb
I'm afraid Cameron's responce was just a token jesture. Whatever Leverson recommended, will, uktimately, be followed and made law. Meaning the end of investigative journalism and stories like, mps fiddling expenses, paedos in high office being given carte blanche, celebrities tax dodging etc.'"
I haven't read the report in full, but even with what I have read indicates your fears are unfounded. The recommendations are for an independent panel to oversee the press, the only legislation he is recommending is that this be done. There will be no serving editors or politicians on the panel. I like the bit about costs being paid by the papers if they don't join in.
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| Quote: cod'ead "
I see they're now dangling the carrot of Lord Chief Justice in front of Leveson, in the hope that he'll be inclined to abandon the remainder of his investigation.'"
6/4 to be the next Lord Chief Justice (Paddy Power).
rlhttps://www.morningstaronline.co.uk/news/content/view/full/126652rl
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| Quote: cod'ead "Looks like the tabloid spin has worked on you then. Quite where you get the "end to investigative journalism" from is beyond me but it certainly wasn't contained or even hinted at in Leveson's report.
Cameron has ordered the DCMS to come up with a bill to be presented to parliament. It's odds on that they will conjure up such draconian measures that even Mugabe may baulk at implimenting it. It has nothing to do with press freedoms and everything to do with continuing to fellate Rupert Murdoch. We currently suffer under a press that is owned by Victorian-era barons and is anything but free. At least Leveson would enshrine that freedom in statute and give protection to those journalists who may suffer from a need to toe the proprietors' line.
I see they're now dangling the carrot of Lord Chief Justice in front of Leveson, in the hope that he'll be inclined to abandon the remainder of his investigation.'"
Yup. Without press support Cameron is completely dead. "PR man who got lucky" - Max Mosely was on fine form on Newsnight, while the Tories wheeled out Jacob "Harry Potter" Reece-Mogg (funnily enough as son of a former editor of the Times he was bitterly opposed to any legislation).
I was rather surprised that Hunt and Cameron and the boys in blue all seemed to come out smelling of roses. Leveson is still a judge and still part of the establishment in the end I suppose.
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| As Billy Bragg just tweetedWhy do those papers that shout loudest about the rights of the victims suddenly seem concerned about the rights of offenders?[/i
And from Stephen Frys[/ie.
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| I'm completely baffled by the widely held notion that we currently have a free press to threaten.
With the mass of existing D-notices, "official secrets", super-injunctions - not to mention the overwhelmingly centre to centre-right ideological slant of not just the newspapers but the BBC is it even possible to squeeze any more regulation into the box?
I mean, 85% of what the press puts out as news today is simply reporting what the Prime Minister and his lackeys say. It's simply inconceivable that they would ever question whether what is being said is a pack of lies.
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| So that's god knows how many thousands of hours of evidence and millions of pounds of cost to the taxpayer, to decide that it's as you were chaps except the PCC is going to have a couple more (albeit fairly blunt) teeth?
Other than knowing that Cameron needs to ring his wife to find out where they had dinner last week, pretty much a giant waste of everyone's time and effort.
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| Quote: Andy Gilder "So that's god knows how many thousands of hours of evidence and millions of pounds of cost to the taxpayer, to decide that it's as you were chaps except the PCC is going to have a couple more (albeit fairly blunt) teeth?
Other than knowing that Cameron needs to ring his wife to find out where they had dinner last week, pretty much a giant waste of everyone's time and effort.'"
Pretty much spot on.....At a time of supposed national hardship, this has been a disgraceful waste of public money....Cameron should also be ashamed of himself for so brazenly rejecting the reccomendations set out by Leveson.
Personally, I think the only way change will ever happen, is if people get out of the habit of actually reading and buying these newspapers who blatantly set out to ignore the feelings of the general public and instead just push their own agenda.
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| Would he ignore a petition ?
rlhttps://hackinginquiry.org/rl
The video is a cracker
LOL - Greg gets a copy too, I'm already on his mailing list, wonder if I'll get a personal response - watch this space.
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| Quote: Dita's Slot Meter "Pretty much spot on.....At a time of supposed national hardship, this has been a disgraceful waste of public money....Cameron should also be ashamed of himself for so brazenly rejecting the reccomendations set out by Leveson.
'"
The man's a borderline sociopath. After first stating that he would impliment Leveson's recommendations "as long as they weren't completely bonkers", he now runs away from the whole episode, one of his own making. It's not too disimilar to his "we will introduce legislation to ensure all energy companies offer the lowest rates possible". He was trapped into that at PMQs, much to the surprise of the treasury and even his own energy minister. Tory grandees must crap themselves at every Wednesday noontime, wondering just what garbage will come out of his mouth.
The money wasted on Leveson is not unique for this bunch though, just look at some of the vanity projects coming from Porky Pickles over at the DCLG. After many local councils moved to fortnightly collections of garbage, he has decided to offer them a bung to reinstate weekly collections. No one has apparently challenged him as to which sofa he found this loose change down the back of. This is a government supposedly committed to "localism", yet they are displaying all the hallmarks of top-down management. Don't get me started on the extra money that introducing efficiencies into the NHS is costing. But when we have a financial iliterate as chancellor, what more could we expect? Instead of the promised deficit reduction, he's presided over it widening by 22% and is too thick to realise that if you throw people out of work, the tax-take reduces while the benefit bill increases.
It's all Labour's fault
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