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Moderator | 12672 | Hull KR |
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| Quote Charlie Sheen="Charlie Sheen"It's been gradually getting worse since the 2008 financial crisis. Nations always become increasingly right wing after an economic shock.'"
Yep.
I think there's an element of focus on certain key floating voters in certain swing seats that have left a lot people disillusioned with centrist politics and drift to the fringes, as well.
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Moderator | 12672 | Hull KR |
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| Quote post="post"
I’d recommend watching a few Jordan Peterson, Peter Hitchens and Christopher Hitchens videos to enlighten or red pill some of you.'"
I think there's a separate issue around populism and polemicism. Whether it is angry middle-aged men on the right, or comedians like Boyle or Lee on the left, they do a decent job of making ideas accessible. However, these are not great thinkers. Boyle is funny though.
I'd recommend reading some books by non-celebrity authors. And avoiding the red pill metaphor. It sounds like you're recruiting to a cult.
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Player Coach | 5193 | No Team Selected |
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| Quote Mild Rover="Mild Rover"I think there's a separate issue around populism and polemicism. Whether it is angry middle-aged men on the right, or comedians like Boyle or Lee on the left, they do a decent job of making ideas accessible. However, these are not great thinkers. Boyle is funny though.
I'd recommend reading some books by non-celebrity authors. And avoiding the red pill metaphor. It sounds like you're recruiting to a cult.'"
Two great books absolutely turned me off socialism, I’m sure you’ve read them yourself but 1984 and Animal Farm. If they don’t scare you away from the left and the way in which they are steering us then I don’t know what will.
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International Star | 4091 | No Team Selected |
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| Quote post="post"Two great books absolutely turned me off socialism, I’m sure you’ve read them yourself but 1984 and Animal Farm. If they don’t scare you away from the left and the way in which they are steering us then I don’t know what will.'"
They are George Orwell books, he was a democratic socialist but opposed totalitarianism. The NHS is an example of socialism in action, do you oppose that?
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| Quote post="post"Two great books absolutely turned me off socialism, I’m sure you’ve read them yourself but 1984 and Animal Farm. If they don’t scare you away from the left and the way in which they are steering us then I don’t know what will.'"
They are very fine books. Obviously though, not many on the left are advocating Stalinism, and I don't think resisting or trying to reverse the growth in inequality inevitably leads to it. 1984, I read more as being about totalitarianism generally, it was more of a fascistic dystopia in many ways.
The arguments put forward by Orwell in The Road to Wigan Pier are broadly of the left.
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| Quote wrencat1873="wrencat1873"Oh, come on, the whole Brexit remit was to reduce immigration and control our own borders.
By dispensing with freedom of movement, necessarily, immigration (and emigration, at least from the EU nations, will reduce.
Of course, the irony in this is that, immigration will increase from outside the EU and some of those driving the anti EU agenda are massively in favour of this, for a whole host of reasons.
However, immigration was THE no 1 issue in the referendum and to pretend otherwise is somewhat misguided.'"
I wasn't going to reply to this as this post is not about Brexit and certainly my reply's have mostly included Brexit and therefore, would like to apologise to the original poster.
However, with respect to you and your post. I'm not sure the whole Brexit remit was about immigration, As the main slogan from the Official Leave campaign which many remain voters love reminding me of was the slogan on the Big Red Bus which was about the amount of money we sent weekly to the EU.
Certainly controlling our own borders with regards the EU and ending freedom of movement was a big part of the referendum result. I'm not sure why you say that immigration WILL increase from outside the EU as a result, the only possible reasons this would happen surely is because, people from the EU would not want to come here, then so be it, or if people from outside the EU would be better suited to what is on offer then again I say so be it.
Most of what I do post are my opinions as most of us don't actually know what will happen if we actually do leave the EU and by that fact you could be right in some of what you say. But in contrast reading your post, you do seem to know what is going to happen.
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Player Coach | 15521 | Wakefield Trinity |
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| Quote POSTL="POSTL"I'm not sure why you say that immigration WILL increase from outside the EU as a result, the only possible reasons this would happen surely is because, people from the EU would not want to come here, then so be it, or if people from outside the EU would be better suited to what is on offer then again I say so be it.'"
It has been already - and it will do so even more post-Brexit, because those countries that some charlatans have claimed will give us the easiest trade deals in history, will want one very important thing in return - visas.
There's an irony in that whilst Nigel successfully conflated non-EU migration with EU-migration as part of his racist campaign to get people to vote Leave - the very people who responded to that (racists) will see an influx of brown people post-Brexit; the very people they wanted rid of in the first place, but which Brexit was never going to achieve.
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| Quote bren2k="bren2k"It has been already - and it will do so even more post-Brexit, because those countries that some charlatans have claimed will give us the easiest trade deals in history, will want one very important thing in return - visas.
There's an irony in that whilst Nigel successfully conflated non-EU migration with EU-migration as part of his racist campaign to get people to vote Leave - the very people who responded to that (racists) will see an influx of brown people post-Brexit; the very people they wanted rid of in the first place, but which Brexit was never going to achieve.'"
I can't in all honestly disagree with what you say especially with the people likely to be negotiating these trade deals, however, with regards to this, what is to say we won't give priority to EU citizens in part of some sort of trade deal negotiations, however, this would not stop what you refer to which I believe has happened in the past. but lets hope not.
I assume your second point is referring to the poster which was put out by Farage showing the long line of what looked like poor refugees and unlike EU citizens would stand little or no chance of getting into this country. Absolutely agree, disgraceful.
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| Quote Sir Kevin Sinfield="Sir Kevin Sinfield"They are George Orwell books, he was a democratic socialist but opposed totalitarianism. The NHS is an example of socialism in action, do you oppose that?'"
No, not at all but it does get taken advantage of. I see it first hand with Pakistanis coming over settling for renal dialysis, Americans with diabetes, Africans with TB, Columbians having babies etc. We shouldn’t be the worlds hospital.
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International Star | 928 | No Team Selected |
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| Quote post="post"No, not at all but it does get taken advantage of. I see it first hand with Pakistanis coming over settling for renal dialysis, Americans with diabetes, Africans with TB, Columbians having babies etc. We shouldn’t be the worlds hospital.'"
Totally agree. No NI contributions no treatment.
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Club Owner | 1528 | Hull FC |
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| Quote post="post"No, not at all but it does get taken advantage of. I see it first hand with Pakistanis coming over settling for renal dialysis, Americans with diabetes, Africans with TB, Columbians having babies etc. We shouldn’t be the worlds hospital.'"
May I ask how you see this first hand?
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Moderator | 32207 | Bradford Bulls |
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| It's a drop in the ocean and administering getting the money back costs almost as much. It'll be even more admin after no deal and we have to charge EU citizens. Just what we need in the NHS - more admin!
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