FFS you've both got a dog/dogs. You each have differing views on how a dog should be trained and developed. Can't you just agree not to look after each others' dogs and move on?

No I'm suggesting a dog follows a command because in P+ it knows its going to get rewarded for that behviour. Explain this then; my behviourist came down to my house the other week and within 5 minutes she had taught them a new clicker move. Did my dogs follow that command because they think she is their new "master" who must be obeyed or did they follow that command because they will be getting a reward??

Anyway, Coddys right, I will continue to read and educate myself on the updated methods and you continue in your belief. One thing we agree on, p+ is the way to go



ps As long as he doesn't have a great dane or a mastiff I would gladly look after Rock Gods dog (s) if the need arise

No, we don't. I have never once disagreed with her assertion that positive training is best.

Fucksake. Your dog obeys commands because they see themselves as being subservient to (certain) humans. Your 'behaviourist' will be included in this because they know how to deal with dogs and because, presumably, they have taken commands from her before. Yes, they know they're going to be rewarded, but (and try to read this very slowly so that you understand) the very process of saying 'do what I say and I'll give you a tit bit' is very much a part of establishing/reinforcing the fact that you hold the authority.



You seem to be incapable of reading anything, much less understanding it. For the final time, [uI have never once disputed the methods[/u.

And I have not said that you dispute positive reward base methods have I, in in fact I have agreed and acknowledged that we both use these methods. [u You[/u seem to be missing my point that there are new beliefs out there that disagree with your method of "being the boss" and why dogs behave in certain ways. No where in my posts have I disputed you are against +R.

We are going around in circles here. We both believe in positive reward based methods, agreed? We both disagree on why dogs behave in a certain way for humans, agreed? I have put my point across on why I disagree with your "showing whos boss", you have put your point across on why you think you need to "show them who's boss", agreed? I respect your opinion and why you think that way (I used to until I read many different articles by many different trainers), but I like to think a different way. Many others believe your way, many others believe my way. Do we need to carry this on?

You seem to be struggling here. You seem to have read the phrase 'a dog needs to know who is in charge' and interpreted it in your own preconceived (and rather negative) way. The links you provided (and others) state that the species of wolf most closely related to the domestic dog live in packs that are quite similar to our family units (mother, father and some pups/younger dogs). So let's look at it from that point of view.

I have a six year old son. I have never beaten him. I don't shake him by the scruff of the neck. When I was potty training him, I didn't rub his nose in any mistakes he might have made. I don't 'dominate' him in any way. Yet he knows exactly who is in charge, and that I (and his mother) [umust[/u be obeyed in certain situations. This is not only desirable for raising a well-behaved child, it's essential to ensure the safety of a child.

If I say "Daniel, please stop that", in a calm and quiet voice, he may ask me why he needs to stop and we'll have a discussion about it. If I raise my voice and say, "Daniel! No!", he will stop what he is doing immediately. If he is in imminent danger of causing himself harm, this response is essential. The same applies with dogs.

Their place in the pack (or family, if you prefer) is that of the younger dog in a wild wolf pack (or family). That's not to say that they see humans as parent wolves, but that they rely on 'their' humans to guide them through life and teach them what's acceptable and what's not in the same way as a parent wolf would. They 'look up' to the humans in their family as figures of authority (if they are trained properly). It's incredibly simplistic to say that they only obey a command because they think they'll get a reward. Yes, they might get one, but that simply reinforces the master/dog (or 'parent/child') relationship. And what happens when you remove the reward? Once I have trained my dogs to obey a particular command on a consistent basis, I cease giving treats. And yet the dogs don't cease to obey the commands. If they were obeying [usolely[/u for a treat, they would quickly learn that there's no point in continuing to obey once the treats weren't forthcoming.

So whatever negative connotations you may have attached to the phrase 'a dog needs to know who is in charge', they don't apply at all. You've taken one sentence and jumped on it without giving any thought to the wider context of what was meant. Consider this: if a dog does not know who is in charge and they find themselves doing something that they might enjoy [imore[/i than a treat (something that might endanger them or someone else), what then?

Anyways...


Go to YouTube and type "Bird Box Studio Pub Dog" and see if you recognise your own hound...

Slightly O/T.

What is it with dogs and crisps?
I reckon it's the salt ... I watched two dogs in the local pub, one of them licked a crisp packet from one end of the bar to the other but the smarter one knew to put his foot on it to hold it still.

Every dog I have ever known has treasured a crisp packet and would sit patiently waiting for you to finish it before taking to their bed, splitting it so that it folded out into one piece and spending all night long licking it, the splitting down the seam and neatly folding it out must be genetic now because they've all known how to do it.

The current hound also covets used yoghurt pots.

Nothing worse than seeing a dog with a broken spirit. Void of life and ruled by the iron fist of it's owner.

Mine's a Russel cross ( staff we think ) rescue goes by the name of Hendrix ( or little 5hit when he ' legs it ' with my socks ) and he knows exactly who the ' Boss ' is

Him



On facebook under Hendricks pike

Got a rescue Staff Weimaraner cross a couple of months ago (reckon the dad must have been the Weimaraner unless the Staffy managed to get hold of some stilts. Anyway he was dumped by his previous owner around two years old, guess he got a bit too much for them to handle and he spent most of his life in a back yard or a crate. In his favour he's crate trained and not aggressive as well as being a sucker for a bit of attention. On the downside if you ignore him for any length of time he suddenly appears with either a shoe or cushion in his mouth and tries to start a game of chase with it. He's also pushing the boundaries by climbing on the furniture and then cowering but ignoring any instructions to get off. He then goes into passive aggressive mode and growls when you try and shift him. If there's any sin bin behaviourists about a bit of advice would be appreciated lol.