1. We are still a member of the EU last I heard
2. They don't make anything an offence (not that given half a chance they wouldn't like to [url=http://www.ukipmeps.org/blog_view_5289_Brussels-to-beef-up-EU-criminal-policy.htmle.g.[/url and, given the insidious creep into all areas of control, undoubtedly if not checked, eventually will)

Quote The Chair Maker="The Chair Maker"Over half of our trade goes with Europe, if they make laws we will have to fall in line with them otherwise we will not be allowed to sell our goods and services there as we will be breaking their laws but they wont be breaking our law.'" And if I have a vagina I would be a woman. Quote The Chair Maker="The Chair Maker"Lets take an hypothetical example of a European rule being enacted limiting a mortgage to 3 times the salary of the people taking out the mortgage and requiring a 10% deposit. Britain lets say has not signed up to this rule and says the free market should decide. The other Europeans could therefore make it an offence for any banks with branches within the signatory countries from offering lets say 100% mortgages, even if those mortgages are only being sold in the UK. The effect would then be that the big banks would then need to decide do they only trade in the UK market, and be able to continue to offer 100% mortgages, or do they trade across Europe and have restrictions placed upon them.'" If my wife had a penis she would be a man. Quote The Chair Maker="The Chair Maker"At this moment in time there is an example of a European treaty that Britain hasnt signed upto having an influence on the UK, and that is the Shengen agreement. Check out the Lille Loophole which makes our border checks completely redundant. www.scotsman.com/news/uk/lille_l ... _1_1999897'" Is that it? France have an agreement with Belguim. I wouldn't call it a loophole I would say it is someone not doing their job. Still rather pointless in this discussion but hey,ho. BTW Switzerland are not in the EU at all, they do have agreements with the EU that allow them trade agreements whilst keeping themselves soverign. You don't have to be in the EU to trade and have agreements with them. So this line that you have to be in the EU to trade with the EU is infact not true at all.

Quote The Chair Maker="The Chair Maker"Over half of our trade goes with Europe, if they make laws we will have to fall in line with them otherwise we will not be allowed to sell our goods and services there as we will be breaking their laws but they wont be breaking our law.'" And if I have a vagina I would be a woman. Quote The Chair Maker="The Chair Maker"Lets take an hypothetical example of a European rule being enacted limiting a mortgage to 3 times the salary of the people taking out the mortgage and requiring a 10% deposit. Britain lets say has not signed up to this rule and says the free market should decide. The other Europeans could therefore make it an offence for any banks with branches within the signatory countries from offering lets say 100% mortgages, even if those mortgages are only being sold in the UK. The effect would then be that the big banks would then need to decide do they only trade in the UK market, and be able to continue to offer 100% mortgages, or do they trade across Europe and have restrictions placed upon them.'" If my wife had a penis she would be a man. Quote The Chair Maker="The Chair Maker"At this moment in time there is an example of a European treaty that Britain hasnt signed upto having an influence on the UK, and that is the Shengen agreement. Check out the Lille Loophole which makes our border checks completely redundant. www.scotsman.com/news/uk/lille_l ... _1_1999897'" Is that it? France have an agreement with Belguim. I wouldn't call it a loophole I would say it is someone not doing their job. Still rather pointless in this discussion but hey,ho. BTW Switzerland are not in the EU at all, they do have agreements with the EU that allow them trade agreements whilst keeping themselves soverign. You don't have to be in the EU to trade and have agreements with them. So this line that you have to be in the EU to trade with the EU is infact not true at all.

So hang on a minute your saying that that bastion of the free market Hong Kong has a financial transaction tax and hasnt fallen into the sea.
Surely it should have collapsed now into poverty with millions left without jobs as banks fled their guilded Skyscrapers, and moved on masse to the unregulated UK



I see that Hong kongs economy is growing at over 7% despite this tax, and unemployment is only at 4%.
it also has public debt of just 0.001% of GDP

The funniest part are the proposals for all countries' budgets to have to be submitted, approved or rejected by an organisation which is so systematically corrupt and financially inept that auditors have refused to sign off its own accounts for SIXTEEN YEARS on the spin, reckoning that 5% of the budget (and therefore several billion pounds) was mis-spent.

And yet, despite having the books comprehensively rejected since well into the last century, the EU simply fookin ignores the fact, and carries on regardless. Nobody has ever explained how or why that can be.

Yes, just the sort of people to tell us how to write our budget.

Quote Anakin Skywalker="Anakin Skywalker" BTW Switzerland are not in the EU at all, they do have agreements with the EU that allow them trade agreements whilst keeping themselves soverign. You don't have to be in the EU to trade and have agreements with them. So this line that you have to be in the EU to trade with the EU is infact not true at all.'" The Swiss do have agreements with the EU. Here they are www.europa.admin.ch/themen/00500 ... ml?lang=en and here is a blog that explains how the Swiss are effectively forced to adopt EU laws citizen-europe.blogspot.com/2009 ... heads.html They are therefore a sovereign state in name only

Quote Anakin Skywalker="Anakin Skywalker" BTW Switzerland are not in the EU at all, they do have agreements with the EU that allow them trade agreements whilst keeping themselves soverign. You don't have to be in the EU to trade and have agreements with them. So this line that you have to be in the EU to trade with the EU is infact not true at all.'" The Swiss do have agreements with the EU. Here they are www.europa.admin.ch/themen/00500 ... ml?lang=en and here is a blog that explains how the Swiss are effectively forced to adopt EU laws citizen-europe.blogspot.com/2009 ... heads.html They are therefore a sovereign state in name only

Quote The Chair Maker="The Chair Maker"The Swiss do have agreements with the EU. Here they are www.europa.admin.ch/themen/00500 ... ml?lang=en and here is a blog that explains how the Swiss are effectively forced to adopt EU laws citizen-europe.blogspot.com/2009 ... heads.html They are therefore a sovereign state in name only'" They are tiny in comparrison to us (6th biggest world economy ATM), we are not surrounded by EU countries. Either way my point is that you CAN trade with the EU whilst outside the EU. You can trade with the EU whilst not giving them millions of £££'s a week only for them to blow it on god knows what as FA states above.

Quote The Chair Maker="The Chair Maker"The Swiss do have agreements with the EU. Here they are www.europa.admin.ch/themen/00500 ... ml?lang=en and here is a blog that explains how the Swiss are effectively forced to adopt EU laws citizen-europe.blogspot.com/2009 ... heads.html They are therefore a sovereign state in name only'" They are tiny in comparrison to us (6th biggest world economy ATM), we are not surrounded by EU countries. Either way my point is that you CAN trade with the EU whilst outside the EU. You can trade with the EU whilst not giving them millions of £££'s a week only for them to blow it on god knows what as FA states above.

Brown kept us out of the Euro, when Blair wanted in - maybe he'll one day get a bit of retrospective credit for that!
I've always been fairly pro-Euro as I reckon that by chance half the decisions made would benefit the part of the UK that is not the South East. And then they maybe wouldn't have to 'subsidise' us quite so much. Relying on the fiscal responsibility of the Italians is a hefty price though, I've come to realise.
I think the current stuff is overblown. The eurozone countries need to sort out the mess, a mess that Britain isn't directly involved in. Apart from being skint, in the medium term we need to focus on finding a better a balance between regulation and freedom in our regulated free market economy. Absolutely no prospect of it happening, like.

Or a lady boy.

Help me out on something

If the UK was to become completely independant from the EEC and was free to set its own rules and regulations on just about everything, does that not put us in a better position than the rest of Europe as Europe would be (in theory) all singing from the same hymn sheet stopping any of the countries having any sort of competitive advantage, whereas we are on the outside able to look in and offer an 'alternative'.

Which means 90% of our GDP isn't the financial sector, but he is prepared to stuff that up in his ideological crusade to shove as much pain and suffering on all those that DIDN"T cause the global meltdown.

As one commentator put it on Radio 5 'he is the prime minister for 90,000 square miles of the UK, not just the 1 square mile in the City of London'

You just want to open a sweatshop, don't you?

Yes we could still trade with other EU countries, we'd just have tariffs to contend with, like in the old days. I'm certain that all the exporters and importers of goods will be absolutely over the moon with that scenario and I also reckon the cost to our economy would eclipse whatever the City are squealing about