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Can't help thinking this debate has gone the distance.
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| Quote: Wanderer "Can't help thinking this debate has gone the distance.'"
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| Haven't locked it though.  |
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| Quote: Wanderer "Haven't locked it though. ![]()
There are egos at stake here.
How could you consider a termination?
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| Quote: Stand-Offish "There are egos at stake here.
How could you consider a termination?
![]()
Quite right.
If you locked this thread you would be setting a very serious precedent. I think there would never be a thread allowed to go over 6 pages as the arguements are all usually played out in the first few pages then everything else is about oneupmanship.
I mean i am not bothered as i know i am right
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The one thing that no one seems to have commented on (I lost the will to live a bit back, but forced myself to skim on) is that surely the hospital should have had some sort of screening system in place, even if it was just a big piece of paper saying 'DO NOT GIVE OUT DETAILS, NO MATTER WHO IS CLAIMING TO BE ON THE PHONE'.
This alone is amiss, and therefore obviously part of the coverup at the top.....
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Kill it, it's garbage i have to keep reading every time someone posts a new message about the same thing over and over again.
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| Quote: Durham Giant "And yet the quote you use about being on the edge is in your head as i have not used those words.'"
You need to give up lying as you are rubbish at it. However I'm pleased you've given up denying you originally queried; "...was it even suicide".
Anyway, back to your latest effort. Your previous actual words wereAnything could have tipped her over the edge into a successful suicide attempt. It is just unfortunate it was the actions of a radio station.'"
So, you said it was the actions of the radio station that tipped her over the edge. But now you are claiming you didn't say she was on any edge. That's a truly pathetic attempt at backtracking. You did. That's exactly what you said.
Quote: Durham Giant "What other things are going on in your head. You tell posters they cannot rely on the press,'"
I have again never said that, but we should be getting used to you lying. Clearly, we all get a lot of information from the press and other media. How much reliance you can place on it varies, obviously. For example, i might initially tend to place more reliance on an article about a medical condition in The Lancet than one in the Daily Star. However as we mostly only ever get information about anything from one kind of report or another, what else does anyone ever do than form opinions based on hearsay accounts, with the sole exception of things you personally witness? I really don't know where you are going with this. It exhibits really muddled thinking.
Quote: Durham Giant " then you use information in the press, '"
See above. Surely you are not saying the only people who could legitimately form a view are those who personally witnessed all the relevant events? As I said, what else do we have to go on but the reported facts?
Quote: Durham Giant "you criticise posters who comment on her likely Mental health'"
Please try to understand thiswasn't[/i on your putative "edge". She may have even been. What I object to is the claim to [iknow[/i she was, or the claim that well, she [imust[/i have been, becasue she had form for that sort of thing and was obviously mentally unbalanced [/i]prior to the prank incident[/i], when you simply cannot draw those conclusions from the fact that she hanged herself. Or from the reports abou the alleged incidents in India.
Quote: Durham Giant "... but then you say she was depressed.'"
The [ireports in the media[/i say she had been treated for depression. The information has been in various media. It has not been denied or contradicted anywhere. So I believe she had been suffering from depression. And yes, I believe, cancel that, I am CERTAIN, that it was deep depression that led her tohnag herself. But the latter certainty is nothing to do with any press reports. It is based on my assumption that someone who hangs themself is deeply unhappy with that life at that moment and can see no other option. So, that opinion of mine is based on NO media reports, no press story, and no first hand information. Yet I'm certain of it.
Do you think I'm wrong?
Quote: Durham Giant "...All of this is quite normal in a discussion and a debate BUT the crux of the matter is , that you were arguing heads should roll whilst others said lets wait until we have the facts before being the judge jury and executioner. Your tendons in your knee jerked so fast you dug a hole for yourself and are still digging whilst still in the hole.'"
As your personal mission seems to be to misquote me and attribute fake comments, I'll quote the whole thing. What I actually said was What I find hard to believe is that then, the radio station management, having reviewed the call, made the staggering decision to put it out over the airwaves. They are older and wiser heads, and no doubt had access to legal advice if they needed it too, and it is they, more than the novice presenters, who are to blame. They could have congratulated the presenters on their "scoop", but gently explained why they had gone too far, and deleted the tape and sent a private apology to the hospital. Instead, they unbelievably decided it was a fit piece to broadcast.
I have no time for morons who claim this was a prank call just like thousands of other prank calls. It wasn't. The "joke" in most prank calls is that at the end of the call, the truth is revealed, and the humour for the listener is in the reaction of the pranked person. Here, though, the pranked person was never considered. They never gave a moment's thought to her. She was bypassed as pure collateral damage. If they had thought for a minute what position they would put her in, and how mortified she would be that she had been taken in, and put a radio station through which was as a result broadcasting Kate's personal info around the world, maybe they would have taken a different decision.
Of course, it was not predictable that the receptionist would take her own life. It was just predictable that she would be utterly humiliated, mortified and extremely distressed. Not to mention the risk of being involved in data protection and employment consequences. And this is where the morons just don't get it. A "prank" is just that. It's an easy word to understand. So all you need to ask yourself before you choose your victim is, will the victim agree that this was just a prank, and see the funny side? If the answer is a plain "no", then it isn't a prank, but something else. It might have just about been, if when she was taken in, they had immediately disclosed who they really were, in typical prank-show style, and declined to be put through, although I don't see what would have been funny about it myself, but they chose to abandon the "prank" aspect and move on to the new target.
The people who took the decision to broadcast clearly have appalling judgment. I'm sure offences must have been committed and if so they must be prosecuted. They aren't fit to be in charge of a broadcast station and should resign or have their licence pulled. '"
Far from being a knee jerk reaction, that was, and remains, my considered view based on the essential facts which were known at the time, and which have not changed.
This is not me "being the judge jury and executioner", as you so dramatically claim. It is me stating what in my opinion should happen. I am not the judge nor claimed to be. I am not likely to be on any relevant jury. I have not called for anyone to be executed.
Funnily enough, the Australian Communications and Media Authority (Acma) which has the power to revoke the licence of the station involved, or to impose conditions on how it operates,has announced that it is using its discretionary powers to launch an investigation. At least, I think it has. I only know this from reports in the media, and you'll tell me that they could be lying. But I don;t think so.
If the reports are to be believed, ACMA will consider whether the prank call breached the Australian Commercial Radio Codes of Practice, including whether it breached standards of decency, invaded privacy or broke rules of consent.
Obviously the reports could have completely invented such a Code, which may ot even exist, and so the quote from this Code, which i have never read. may be a complete fabrication, but for what it is worth, under part 6 of the alleged code, radio stations are not allowed to broadcast the words of an "identifiable person" unless the person has been told in advance that their words may be broadcast. If they have been recorded without their knowledge they must give consent for their words to be broadcast before they are put to air. Legal experts have also reportedly said they believe the call may have breached the Listening Devices Act of New South Wales. But they may be making it up, too, I suppose.
On the remote chance that the Code does exist, do you think the radio station told Mrs. Saldanha in advance that her words would be broadcast, or that she consented to it? I'm saying no. Oops - ther I go again, jumping to conclusions wheh I was not at Mrs. Saldanha's side for every moment between th call and her death, so cannot possibly "know" that she didn't consent. Hey ho. I'll take the chance I'm wrong.
Quote: Durham Giant "... So between the voices in your head and the knee jerk reactions get yourself to the doctors quick.'"
Quote: Durham Giant "Kill it, it's garbage i have to keep reading every time someone posts a new message about the same thing over and over again.'"
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FA... you're starting to sound a lot like me when I get my teeth into something.
Not acknowledging the possibility of being wrong? Check.
Picking and choosing which bits to argue with? Check
Not noticing that you're slowly being ridiculed? Check....
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Charges very unlikely, unsurprisingly.
rlhttps://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/australiaandthepacific/australia/9768656/Duchess-hoax-call-Australian-radio-hosts-unlikely-to-face-charges.htmlrl
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| Quote: WIZEB "Charges very unlikely, unsurprisingly.
rlhttps://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/australiaandthepacific/australia/9768656/Duchess-hoax-call-Australian-radio-hosts-unlikely-to-face-charges.htmlrl'"
Quite right too. |
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| Quote: Scooter Nik "FA... you're starting to sound a lot like me when I get my teeth into something...'"
Aye.
Quote: Scooter Nik "Not acknowledging the possibility of being wrong? Check...'"
No. That's one possibility I'm always open to. On this one, though I'm not especially claiming to be "right" about anything. I do have the opinion that the radio station management acted appallingly and that is a view that is not capable of being changed, as that just IS my opinion. And will remain so whether they face any worse consequences than they already have, or no more. But it's perfectly reasonable to have a firm view, most people do, I think.
Quote: Scooter Nik "Picking and choosing which bits to argue with? Check..'"
Actually I reckon the exact opposite is one of my faults. If I was much more selective, my responses would be much shorter. I acknowledge a tendency to have to rebut each point that is to me plainly wrong.
Quote: Scooter Nik "Not noticing that you're slowly being ridiculed? Check....'"
Hardly. The two muppets doing the attempts at "ridicule" aren't exactly being subtle. To me, the particular puerile comments are just embarrassing to them. If they want to show themselves up I don't care. ATEOTD I don't think being of the firm opinion that the radio station management acted very badly; and that whilst they did not kill her, had they not chosen to run the tape, she would almost certainly be alive today and getting on with her conscientious day to day nursing job at which she was reportedly 'outstanding', is even capable of being "ridiculed". But if you disagree, I'd be interested to know what bits you think are ridiculous?
But as I do regularly ridicule the ridiculous, I could hardly object to that tactic. The thing about ridicule is, it only works if your target audience agrees that the object is worthy of ridicule. Otherwise you just show yourself up as an ignorant boor, eg Durham Giant. Like on this thread, I have ridiculed the conspiracists ("a very convenient death"; "was it even suicide"icon_wink.gif. I suppose the difference is whether views, such as those, merit ridicule, as opposed to poor attempts at ridicule being used as a last resort by people who have run out of sensible ways to defend their position, so then descend to offensive remarks to smokescreen their embarrassment. |
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"Oh, that God the gift would give us
To see ourselves as others see us" ....... Robert Burns
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| Quote: Ferocious Aardvark "
As your personal mission seems to be to misquote me and attribute fake comments, I'll quote the whole thing. What I actually said wasI have no time for morons who claim this was a prank call page 11'"
Yet you accuse others of being puerile and insulting
Quote: Ferocious Aardvark "I'm sure offences must have been committed and if so they must be prosecuted page 11'" .
You wrote this at the time when everyone in the media and the usual idiots were demanding sackings prosecutions and making death threats but you insist you were not on any bandwagon.
The crux of your argument seems to be that you have not moved from your original position and that you were above all of the bandwagon jumpers and should be seen as some sort of ethereal being floating above everyone else
Quote: Ferocious Aardvark "On all known facts the nurse took her life as the final act in a short sequence of events in which the prank call was the first, and so the outcome of the prank was, ultimately, her death page 14'" .
And this was at the time you accused wheels of [sizespeculation[/size
Quote: Ferocious Aardvark "that NO such drivel as the OP alludes to is even remotely going to come out in the wash page 16'"
This was two days before information came out about the Nurse previously trying to kill herself twice this year
Quote: Ferocious Aardvark "Credit though for managing to twist things round to the extent that you now suggest most of the "blame" for the suicide can be put on the nurse's mental health. That is truly sick, if ingenious page 22 '" .
You wrote this when most people were accepting that her mental health must have been a major factor in what happened. Yet anyone who thinks that her Mental health in some way contributed to what happened is SICK.
Quote: Ferocious Aardvark "as I have several times previously said, all the facts are NOT known nor will they be until the inquest finds them. page 23 '"
Yet when i suggested that we cannot say it was suicide until the inquest makes the decision you tried to ridicule that position.
Quote: Ferocious Aardvark "To sum up, you say that "IF" anyone is to blame, (so you think nobody may have done anything amiss) page 24'"
And this was at the time you denied that you were looking to blame people.
You start insulting people and then complain when others do it to you.
You already suffer from knee jerk reactions, have little insight into your actions, think people are out to get you with insults and have grandiose ideas that anyone is remotely bothered about what you say when you have been shown up.
I am just enjoying the sport with you if anyone seems to have got their knickers in a twist it is you.
I have to say you are exhibiting elements of both neurosis and psychosis have you been assessed by your local mental health team as you have some characteristics of Borderline personality disorder. |
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| Quote: Durham Giant "As you seem so keen on your quotes here are a few more
Quote
Fail. That's neither puerile nor insulting. For convenience we all refer to it as the "prank call" but it developed into no such thing, it developed into a bogus caller obtaining confidential patient information, and then a radio station using the call without anyone's consent. It was intended as a prank call, but the DJs never thought they'd get through. Having got through, they got a bit giddy ad caused a nurse to break patient confidentiality, but that's what their bosses should have understood and that's why the major blame is for the bosses' decision to broadcast.
Quote: Durham Giant "Quote: Durham Giant "I'm sure offences must have been committed and if so they must be prosecuted page 11'"
You wrote this at the time when everyone in the media and the usual idiots were demanding sackings prosecutions and making death threats but you insist you were not on any bandwagon.'"
Fail. I said I was quite sure offences had been committed, and that IF SO (note the word "if"icon_wink.gif then they must be prosecuted. What exactly is wrong with that?
Quote: Durham Giant "The crux of your argument seems to be that you have not moved from your original position '"
Fail. The crux of my argument was and is in my first post, which I quoted for you in full last time, but clearly might as well not have bothered.
Quote: Durham Giant " and that you were above all of the bandwagon jumpers and should be seen as some sort of ethereal being floating above everyone else '"
Oh dear. And I said any such thing when, exactly? I simply posted my considered opinion. Nothing more. "Ethereal being"? FFS.
Quote: Durham Giant "Quote
So, I was right on all that. Your point?
Quote: Durham Giant "Quote
Fail. Leaving aside your claim that she "tried to kill herself" which is just the sort of speculation you decry, (for reasons I have stated I don't believe she did intend to kill herself in those incidents) you well know that the "drivel" I referred to was the dark hints at conspiracy or that the hospital management had somehow been complicit in her death, in some weird 'dark forces at work here' kind of way.
Quote: Durham Giant "Quote
Fail. The trouble is you keep deliberately twisting my clear words in an effort to decalre yourself right. The exact subject we are here discussing is her mental health [iimmediately before[/i the prank call events. You claim to know she was mentally ill and on the edge. (Then you lied, and claimed you never said she was on the edge; remember?) I have pointed out that you know no such thing, and you refuse to accept it. So far as I am aware, absolutely NO information, zero, nada, nothing has come out to suggest that immediately before tehse events she was "on the edge of suicide" or mentally ill. I pointed out for the sake of completeness that I am not even saying she wasn't suffering from some mental illness, only that there is NO information to back up such a claim.
The difference is you have taken the reported events of almost a year ago and assigned permanent mental illness and being "on the edge" to her, as if she was from that moment permanently and forever a risk of imminent suicide at any time. I have said you have no justification for claiming this.
Quote: Durham Giant "Quote
Fail. That's not just a lie, but a stupid lie, since I have been repeatedly saying that I mainly blame the radio station management from my very first post, and you can hardly have missed it. How do you think you can get away with this repeated lying? Do you even know you're doing it?
Quote: Durham Giant "You start insulting people and then complain when others do it to you. '"
To whom did I complain? I suggested you apologised for an out of order remark. You chose not to, that's up to you!
Quote: Durham Giant "You already suffer from knee jerk reactions, have little insight into your actions, think people are out to get you with insults and have grandiose ideas that anyone is remotely bothered about what you say '"
Fail. You can't specify any such alleged knee jerk reaction, you can't give a clue as to what on earth you mean by I "have little insight into (my) actions". To say I "think people are out to get me with insults" is pretty weird. You seem to think whatever you invent becomes fact. It doesn't.
Quote: Durham Giant " I am just enjoying the sport with you '"
Well that's good, then, at least, as I'm certainly having fun showing up your illogical and contradictory ramblings. It would be good if you could cut down on the lies, and particularly the gratuitous abuse, as no debate is ever improved by that, but if you feel the need to ramp it up then crack on, it just clearly shows that, far from "enjoying the sport", you have got your knickers in a right twist, to the extent you've lost your self-control and can't help yourself being reduced to insults.
Quote: Durham Giant "Thu Dec 13, 2012 3
We agree on this.
Quote: Durham Giant "Wed Dec 26, 2012 11
Quote: Durham Giant "Wed Dec 26, 2012 7
Quote: Durham Giant "I have to say you are exhibiting elements of both neurosis and psychosis have you been assessed by your local mental health team as you have some characteristics of Borderline personality disorder.'"
So now you are not only nurse Saldanha's psychiatrist, you think you're mine! Brilliant! But as presumably you mean what you say, then since you have (repeatedly) resorted to insults, I must take it you accept you have lost the argument, and this is therefore the final post in this thread.
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