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Quote: Mintball "Please learn to use the quote function. It isn't difficult, but not using it correctly makes coherent discussion more difficult.

Therefore, at present, I'll respond only to your final point

My response to you is very simple to follow. Your points are one shade, mine are another. I'll take it that you haven't actually got any responses once your over emotive, cliché ridden musings are challenged?

Give me an example of an in work benefit that isn't needed & requires the government to give companies money.

be careful to note the difference between not taking money & giving it.

What tax breaks do fracking companies get? How does it compare to the feed in tariffs Labour introduced?

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Quote: BiffasBoys "You yourself have used an example of a family whose kids have grown up & left.'"

Not me.

Quote: BiffasBoys "All the apparent cases of people having to pay more as a result of a reduction in benefits, owing to excess capacity, aren't claims made by me.'"

What's your point here and why is it relevant?

Quote: BiffasBoys "If demand increases beyond the current spare capacity, rents will rise purely due to supply and demand.'"

Quote: BiffasBoys "Big ifs. What is the capacity? Why should those who are in social housing & not in receipt of housing benefit not be moved into the private sector? or charged more so that taxpayer subsidy is removed?'"

Not a big "If" at all.
Nowadays, the greatest problem with housing is that supply is falling short of demand, leading to higher purchase prices and higher rents ... social housing eases this, but only to the extent to which it is allowed.
Also, since Thatcher swept away many tenancy rights in the private sector, social housing is more secure.
And now you want to boot out those who pay their rent themselves.

Quote: BiffasBoys "Are you saying there is sufficient spare capacity lying empty to be able to cope?'"

Quote: BiffasBoys "There are thousands of empty properties all over the country, hundreds of stalled housing developments'"

And how do you propose to rent them out?
If the owners of the empty private ones wanted to rent them out, wouldn't most of them be rented-out already?

Quote: BiffasBoys "You say the cost is less ... how much less?'"

Quote: BiffasBoys "Build cost is funded by private capital, as are the ongoing costs. Not by taxpayers. Housing benefit is taxpayer funded. You say the cost is more. How much more?'"

It's the DWP who says it costs more in benefits when the recipients are in the private sector, see earlier post and link.
Adding profit onto the costs must increase the rent, it's very simple.

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Quote: El Barbudo "
It's the DWP who says it costs more in benefits when the recipients are in the private sector, see earlier post and link.
Adding profit onto the costs must increase the rent, it's very simple.'"


That and the fact that not all private landlords accept DWP Benefits claimants, in or especially out of work, and especially not now that the Housing Benefit payments are rolled into Universal Benefits and paid directly to the claimant - its only served to make the matter worse (not thought through policy rears its head again).

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Quote: BiffasBoys "Thanks for that insightful contribution. Must have taken you a while to come up with it.'"

At least it helped to make the thread readable.

Your modus operandi is to question everything and answer nothing.
Must have taken you a while to come up with that.

Him
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Quote: BiffasBoys "My response to you is very simple to follow. Your points are one shade, mine are another. I'll take it that you haven't actually got any responses once your over emotive, cliché ridden musings are challenged?

Give me an example of an in work benefit that isn't needed & requires the government to give companies money.

be careful to note the difference between not taking money & giving it.

What tax breaks do fracking companies get? How does it compare to the feed in tariffs Labour introduced?'"

Do you understand what a subsidy is?

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Quote: Him "A legacy of liberalisation and under regulation of financial markets across the world.

Quote: Him "That old chestnut.'"


Who says we can't afford the spending? Borrowing rates are at about the lowest rate for decades.

Quote: Him "No they aren't. Look at the debt/gdp ratio'"


A 25% reduction in the deficit. Attained by making thousands of police, armed forces personnel, doctors & nurses, admin staff, civil servants etc redundant or not hiring necessary replacements from natural wastage. Leading to reductions in capability of the police, fire service & armed forces. The cancellation/non procurement of armed forces equipment for the future. And of course the understaffing of hospitals, especially A&E departments.

Quote: Him "What a load of old tosh. Go away & look at the actual figures on the number of redundancies. There are thousands of public sector vacancies around. reduction in capability or more accurately a reflection of what is needed?'"


Since 2008There seems to be an obsession by those of a left leaning persuasion to constantly point at the US model. Why is this? It's acase of kicking the debt down the road for someone else to deal with. the US is in rude health is it?'"


Via a fiscal stimulus to temporarily fill the demand gap.

Quote: Him "You mean like cutting VAT to stimulate the economy, when all it did was lose the exchequer billions & produce not a scintilla of growth?

For all those knocking the current situation, what would Labour do differently? Postcards at the ready.'"


'"


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Quote: El Barbudo "Not me.

What's your point here and why is it relevant?

Not a big "If" at all.
Nowadays, the greatest problem with housing is that supply is falling short of demand, leading to higher purchase prices and higher rents ... social housing eases this, but only to the extent to which it is allowed.
Also, since Thatcher swept away many tenancy rights in the private sector, social housing is more secure.
And now you want to boot out those who pay their rent themselves.

And how do you propose to rent them out?
If the owners of the empty private ones wanted to rent them out, wouldn't most of them be rented-out already?

It's the DWP who says it costs more in benefits when the recipients are in the private sector, see earlier post and link.
Adding profit onto the costs must increase the rent, it's very simple.'"


Where is supply falling short of demand? Higher purchase prices & rents? Relative to when? I think you'll find the house price boom is a thing of the past.

Took a while, but she's finally made it into the discourse.

Boot them out? Why should there be social housing apart from the most needy in society? Why should anyone who can afford not to be subsidised by the state be so?

The benefits paid out [imay[/i be higher, but there's no capital outlay & ongoing capital costs. You seem to be missing this point.

Still no one has said why money circulating between government departments is better than it stimulating the economy. e.g people need homes to rent/buy, developers will build them.

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Quote: Him "Do you understand what a subsidy is?'"


No answer to the question then?

Do you, it appears not.

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Quote: JerryChicken "That and the fact that not all private landlords accept DWP Benefits claimants, in or especially out of work, and especially not now that the Housing Benefit payments are rolled into Universal Benefits and paid directly to the claimant - its only served to make the matter worse (not thought through policy rears its head again).'"


This has always been the case, nothing new here.

Of course there were absolutely no instances of the system being screwed by thousands of bogus hosuing benefit claims from unscrupulous landlords were there?

Why is paying benefit to the claimant an ill thought out policy? Are you saying that because someone is in receipt of benefit, they are completely incapable of knowing they have to pay their rent?

Can benefit claimants not be trusted?

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How many of you that are against the spare room subsidy being applied to social housing think it should be repealed in regard to private rented housing? Give reasons.

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Quote: BiffasBoys "This has always been the case, nothing new here.

Of course there were absolutely no instances of the system being screwed by thousands of bogus hosuing benefit claims from unscrupulous landlords were there?

Why is paying benefit to the claimant an ill thought out policy? Are you saying that because someone is in receipt of benefit, they are completely incapable of knowing they have to pay their rent?

Can benefit claimants not be trusted?'"



So are you in agreement that the best administrators of social housing are local authorities and housing associations who can also offer unbiased and free advice via their housing offices to claimants regarding the claiming and payment of such benefits as may be available ?

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Quote: BiffasBoys "How many of you that are against the spare room subsidy being applied to social housing think it should be repealed in regard to private rented housing? Give reasons.'"


The case is slightly different with regard to private landlords but the overall ruling can still be penury - the private market that caters for benefits claimants (and its by no means the whole of the sector that do) is quicker to adapt to the requirements of its clients, so in a district that requires accommodation for couples, or students or single people you will within a short space of time find dwellings split to offer just that - or alternatively if 3 or more beds are required, no private landlord wants their property standing empty and they tend to be very savvy about what is currently letting well in their district.

Local Authorities have been stymied for decades and their inability to invest in their own housing stock means that they simply cannot adapt to trending housing requirements - back int he 70s when I was involved in construction we built lots of council properties (and I mean thousands) and the majority of those were "family" homes, two and a half or three bed properties - its those very properties that are causing the problems now as those families have either dispersed leaving the parents, or the new incoming tenants are singles or couples.

If the country needs full employment (and its generally been seen as a target to achieve) and that full employment is created on the alter of NMW and non-committal contracts, then housing benefit will be required and housing to match the claimants needs will be required - you can't screw those people twice.

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Quote: Him "A legacy of liberalisation and under regulation of financial markets across the world.'"

Quote: Him "That old chestnut.'"

Yes, that old chestnut.
Do you dispute it?
If so, give reasons.

Quote: Him "Who says we can't afford the spending? Borrowing rates are at about the lowest rate for decades.'"

Quote: Him "No they aren't. Look at the debt/gdp ratio'"

11.0224609375:10
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