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Quote: Dally "[Arguably, at t

Will that be the one that many people said would not create growth and would, instead, cause more problems and a greater deficit?

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Quote: Mintball "
Quote: Mintball "[Arguably, at t

Will that be the one that many people said would not create growth and would, instead, cause more problems and a greater deficit?'"


The crux of the matter is we are in a Catch 22 position - all ideas for growth that I have seen involve further borrowing, which is how we got into this mess. To carry on doing that is just not an option. The idea is that we have to get back to somewhere near where we were at before / near the start of the long period debt-fuelled "boom" period by a process of "de-leveraging". That involves living standards and real wealth being diminished in as painless a way as possible. The capitalist way would have been to let the banks go bust, mass repossession of houses, mass foreclosure of business loans, etc. That was unpalatable, so people in power have played for time and continue to do so. But make no mistake, there is no way out that does not result in significant loss of living standards (which will inevitably also include public services, as seen in Greece, Ireland, and to a lesser extent, to date, here).

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Quote: Dally " ... The crux of the matter is we are in a Catch 22 position - all ideas for growth that I have seen involve further borrowing, which is how we got into this mess. To carry on doing that is just not an option.. .'"

Tell George it's not an option, he's borrowing more.
In fact, tell Cameron that George is borrowing more, because Cameron doesn't seem to realise it judging by his PMQs this week when he scoffed at the opposition about "wanting to borrow more, which is what got us into this mess in the first place".

But George is doing it not to boost growth, nope, he's doing it to pay dole and because he's getting less in tax take.
Maybe he hasn't twigged that if you will allow businesses (e.g. Vodafone) to avoid tax (e.g. £6bn) when you've already got a legal judgement to force them to do so, you will get less tax take, won't you?

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Look at the French going on the attack.

It's every man for himself in this crisis.

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Quote: Kosh "Really not sure why you think I'd be interested in anything from the Socialist Worker. Or is everyone who disagrees with Call Me Dave now a raving lefty in your book? Bit disappointed by that comment TBH.
'"


It was a response to the fact you didn't like the fact I (unwittingly) quoted an independent think tank that you think (probably rightly) is Eurosceptic.

I originally quoted the Guarniad, a quote which which you ignored, and I followed that up with a joke suggesting that I couldn't find anything more left wing than that to support my argument.

I was replying to a charge that Blair would have successfully sorted this problem. Apparently he was such a good negotiator that it wouldn't have been any problem whatsoever for Tony to have sorted this. My argument, which I stand by, is that he failed to deliver what he set out to deliver in previous negotiations and therefore the idea that he would have sorted this one was flawed. That's my view and the one I stick with. It isn't a support for Cameron - I haven't stated my view on Cameron's performance at the last summit nor have I stated my view on the single market.

As you well know I have worked for a French multi national for 22 years who manufacture in this country mainly because they sell lots of their products in this country and it makes sense to do so. Of course there are exports and imports involved and the single market is crucial. Unfortunately the single market is no longer the main issue - which it should be. As the doomed single currency in the Eurozone breaks down we see individual countries (and at the moment one predictable one in particular) begin to lash around and attack us because they wish they hadn't joined. Amusingly the likes of Blair (and that political genius heavyweight Ashdown) have said within the last month that we still could join. Whoever was slagging Brown in a previous post should think again. He might have destroyed Britain's private sector pension industry with the removal of tax relief on dividends paid into pension funds (the single main reason today why public and private sector employees are at odds with each other in regard to pension provision) but at least he stopped Tony from joining the most ill thought out Franco German project of all time that was always doomed to failure. The five economic tests - well done Gordon.

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We need another Labour Government:

The Labour message that 'everyone can have anything now without paying for it' is far more appealing than the coalition message that one must pay for what one consumes.

The economic boom of the last 10 years was an illusion built largely upon cheap credit and people getting rich quick off the back of massive rises in the housing market. Now the time has come to repay the debts the economy has gone massively t1ts up.

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Quote: The Video Ref "We need another Labour Government

So the Conservative party will presumably be regulating the credit market to ensure that this does not happen again?

I expect they will also be regulating the financial services sector so that the banks cannot squander savers money whilst paying themselves high bonuses and leave the risk to the taxpayer if they become insolvent?

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Don't worry i'm sure a resource based economy is just around the corner.

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Quote: Horatio Yed "Don't worry i'm sure a resource based economy is just around the corner.'"


Soylent Green, it's the new black

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Quote: The Video Ref "
We need another Labour Government

Agreed

Quote: The Video Ref "The Labour message that 'everyone can have anything now without paying for it' is far more appealing than the coalition message that one must pay for what one consumes.'"


Now when did Labour ever say such a thing?

Quote: The Video Ref "The economic boom of the last 10 years was an illusion built largely upon cheap credit and people getting rich quick off the back of massive rises in the housing market. Now the time has come to repay the debts the economy has gone massively t1ts up.'"


The last ten years?

Go back a little further sunshine, it was t'conservatives that deregulated banks and laid the path for demutualising building societies. They were the ones that flogged off the nation's assets in the name of free-enterprise & choice. Tell me which water supplier you chose to buy from?

It was also the conservatives that directly gave us the unsustainable house price boom. You can't seriously lay that one at Labour's door, not even noooooo Labour

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Moderator


Quote: Staffs FC "It was a response to the fact you didn't like the fact I (unwittingly) quoted an independent think tank that you think (probably rightly) is Eurosceptic.'"

I didn't [idislike[/i it. I pointed out that it was hardly a balanced take on what happened.

Quote: Staffs FC "I originally quoted the Guarniad, a quote which which you ignored, and I followed that up with a joke suggesting that I couldn't find anything more left wing than that to support my argument.'"

I didn't ignore the Grauniad quote. I didn't comment on it because there was nothing in it that I had a problem with, although subsequently I've commented that I don't agree with your interpretation of what they had to say. That probably explains why I didn't understand your quip about the SW.

Quote: Staffs FC "I was replying to a charge that Blair would have successfully sorted this problem. Apparently he was such a good negotiator that it wouldn't have been any problem whatsoever for Tony to have sorted this. My argument, which I stand by, is that he failed to deliver what he set out to deliver in previous negotiations and therefore the idea that he would have sorted this one was flawed. That's my view and the one I stick with. It isn't a support for Cameron - I haven't stated my view on Cameron's performance at the last summit nor have I stated my view on the single market.'"

And I wasn't supporting Blair [iper se[/i nor agreeing with the position that he would have sorted the current situation with a snap of his fingers. I think he was a far better diplomat and negotiator that Cameron will ever be, but the main thrust of my posts were disagreeing with the accuracy of the evidence presented rather than agreeing with the opposite view. If you see what I mean. 2.5712890625:10
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     Mens Super League XXX-R11
20:00
Leeds
v
Hull FC
20:00
Wigan
v
Leigh
 Sat 17th May 2025
     Mens Super League XXX-R11
15:00
Hull KR
v
Huddersfield
 Sun 18th May 2025
     Mens Super League XXX-R11
15:00
Wakefield
v
Warrington
17:30
Castleford
v
Salford
 Thu 22nd May 2025
     Mens Super League XXX-R12
20:00
Leigh
v
Hull FC
 Fri 23rd May 2025
       Championship 2025-R11
19:30
Sheffield
v
Hunslet
     Mens Super League XXX-R12
20:00
Huddersfield
v
St.Helens
20:00
Warrington
v
Hull KR
 Sat 24th May 2025
     Mens Super League XXX-R12
14:30
Castleford
v
Leeds
17:30
Catalans
v
Wigan
       Championship 2025-R11
18:00
Toulouse
v
Barrow
 Sun 25th May 2025
       League One 2025-R10
14:00
Midlands
v
Whitehaven
     Mens Super League XXX-R12
15:00
Wakefield
v
Salford
       Championship 2025-R11
15:00
Bradford
v
Widnes
15:00
Doncaster
v
LondonB
15:00
Featherstone
v
Batley
15:00
Oldham
v
Halifax
       League One 2025-R10
15:00
Keighley
v
Crusaders
15:00
Rochdale
v
Newcastle
15:00
Swinton
v
Cornwall
15:00
Workington
v
Goole V
 Thu 29th May 2025
     Mens Super League XXX-R13
20:00
Huddersfield
v
Leigh
 Fri 30th May 2025
     Mens Super League XXX-R13
20:00
Hull KR
v
St.Helens
20:00
Salford
v
Wigan
 Sat 31st May 2025
     Mens Super League XXX-R13
14:30
Leeds
v
Wakefield
       Championship 2025-R12
17:00
LondonB
v
Widnes
     Mens Super League XXX-R13
17:30
Catalans
v
Hull FC
       Championship 2025-R12
18:00
Batley
v
Toulouse
 Sun 1st Jun 2025
       League One 2025-R11
13:00
Cornwall
v
Goole V
14:00
Midlands
v
Swinton
14:30
Crusaders
v
Rochdale
     Mens Super League XXX-R13
15:00
Warrington
v
Castleford
       Championship 2025-R12
15:00
Barrow
v
Featherstone
15:00
Doncaster
v
Bradford
15:00
Hunslet
v
Oldham
15:00
York
v
Sheffield
       League One 2025-R11
15:00
Newcastle
v
Keighley
15:00
Workington
v
Dewsbury
 Fri 13th Jun 2025
       League One 2025-R12
19:00
Dewsbury
v
Goole V
     Mens Super League XXX-R14
20:00
Hull FC
v
Castleford
20:00
Hull KR
v
Catalans
 Sat 14th Jun 2025
     Mens Super League XXX-R14
15:00
Huddersfield
v
Wigan
17:30
Leeds
v
Warrington
 Sun 15th Jun 2025
     Mens Super League XXX-R14
14:30
Wakefield
v
Leigh
       League One 2025-R12
14:30
Crusaders
v
Midlands
     Mens Super League XXX-R14
15:00
Salford
v
St.Helens
       Championship 2025-R13
15:00
Barrow
v
Sheffield
15:00
Batley
v
Doncaster
15:00
Bradford
v
York
15:00
Featherstone
v
Hunslet
15:00
Widnes
v
Halifax
15:00
Toulouse
v
LondonB
       League One 2025-R12
15:00
Keighley
v
Rochdale
15:00
Swinton
v
Workington
15:00
Whitehaven
v
Cornwall
ALL SCORES PROVIDED BY RLFANS.COM (SETTINGS)
Matches on TV
Thu 13th Feb
SL
20:00
Wigan-Leigh
Fri 14th Feb
SL
20:00
Hull KR-Castleford
SL
20:00
Catalans-Hull FC
Sat 15th Feb
SL
15:00
Leeds-Wakefield
SL
17:30
St.Helens-Salford
Sun 16th Feb
SL
15:00
Huddersfield-Warrington
Thu 20th Feb
SL
20:00
Wakefield-Hull KR
Fri 21st Feb
SL
20:00
Warrington-Catalans
SL
20:00
Hull FC-Wigan
Sat 22nd Feb
SL
15:00
Salford-Leeds
SL
20:00
Castleford-St.Helens
Sun 23rd Feb
SL
14:30
Leigh-Huddersfield
Fri 28th Feb
SL
20:00
Huddersfield-Hull FC
SL
20:00
Hull KR-Salford
SL
20:00
Leigh-Catalans
Sat 1st Mar
SL
14:30
Wakefield-St.Helens
SL
21:30
Wigan-Warrington
Sun 2nd Mar
SL
15:00
Leeds-Castleford
Thu 6th Mar
SL
20:00
Hull FC-Leigh
Fri 7th Mar
SL
20:00
Castleford-Salford
This is an inplay table and live positions can change.
Mens Betfred Super League XXVIII ROUND : 1
 PLDFADIFFPTS
Wigan 29 768 338 430 48
Hull KR 29 731 344 387 44
Warrington 29 769 351 418 42
Leigh 29 580 442 138 33
Salford 28 556 561 -5 32
St.Helens 28 618 411 207 30
 
Catalans 27 475 427 48 30
Leeds 27 530 488 42 28
Huddersfield 27 468 658 -190 20
Castleford 27 425 735 -310 15
Hull FC 27 328 894 -566 6
LondonB 27 317 916 -599 6
This is an inplay table and live positions can change.
Betfred Championship 2024 ROUND : 1
 PLDFADIFFPTS
Wakefield 27 1032 275 757 52
Toulouse 26 765 388 377 37
Bradford 28 723 420 303 36
York 29 695 501 194 32
Widnes 27 561 502 59 29
Featherstone 27 634 525 109 28
 
Sheffield 26 626 526 100 28
Doncaster 26 498 619 -121 25
Halifax 26 509 650 -141 22
Batley 26 422 591 -169 22
Swinton 28 484 676 -192 20
Barrow 25 442 720 -278 19
Whitehaven 25 437 826 -389 18
Dewsbury 27 348 879 -531 4
Hunslet 1 6 10 -4 0
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