It is. But that doesn't fit with the right wing obsession with the EU, or their previous narrative that the EU was a controlling monster that over-ruled the nation states.

Painting the difficult problems various countries have faced as an EU thing therefore suits their purposes for a variety of reasons, not least that it distracts from the previously disastrous job the government had done throughout the pandemic.

I think you are wrong with the first paragraph but spot on with the second.

Anyone who doesn't think the EU is the ultimate Big Brother with the most protectionist attitude of any major organisation then they are blind to the real EU.

Nobody can deny the handling of the earlier stages of the pandemic have been a disgrace - Boris and his cronies were too slow, weak and lacked any kind of coherent strategy. That can also be levelled at the NHS too.

The EU is protectionist externally, in the same way as the US and other major economies. However, it has cut protectionism internally among member states substantially. So we gave up the external protection and internal ease of access to a very large and nearby market. You can make the small and nimble argument for new trade deals but because we have have gone full open doors/low tariffs for imports globally we haven’t got much to offer in trade negotiations. Why would other countries offer us better access when we have already given away the farm? We definitely can’t be accused of selfishly protecting our economic interests - whether that is down to generosity or stupidity is a matter of opinion.

Brexit wasn’t driven by economics though. A country is more than just its GDP, and I accept that the benefits, although intangible, are nonetheless real for many people. Unfortunately for me, it is stuff that I don’t value much personally and I don’t think is very healthy for us nationally, in an opiate of the masses kind of way.

I doesn't take a huge leap of faith to see a European super state controlled by the likes of Von der Leyen where by the rules are set from the centre by a host of unelected bureaucrats. The EU has been gradually moving from a free trade arrangements to super state. You only have to see the handling of the vaccine program and the impact it has had in France, Germany, Poland etc. A state where the biggest players manipulate the rules to best suit their particular needs.

Perhaps giving up your independence is a situation worth enduring to get access to the EU - you can't have both. Perhaps we need to be able to stand on our own two feet a bit more - it will definitely sharpen up our commercial endeavours over time.

It is possible, and the EU is far from perfect. But we assess both the risk and the hazard differently. I think it is a smaller leap of faith to see this not happening. There are other hazards that concern me more (broadly, a continent-wide rise in far right populism) and that [imight[/i mean that we actually do end up being better off out. However, for now the risk, while bigger than I’d like, remains small and so I didn’t see an urgent need to depart. But we have, so there you go!



Okay, I may genuinely have missed something here. There seems to be some conception that there is a single EU vaccination program, that is to the detriment of efforts in individual member states. That isn’t the case, as I understand it. While national decision makers take advice from the EMA, after regulatory approval for which the EMA is entirely responsible, they make their decisions independently. For example the (imo strange) decisions to suspend use of the AZ vaccine were taken independently in some member states and in not others.



Gosh yes - it’d be terrible to live in a state where the wealthy and powerful exert their influence in pursuit of their best interests, exploiting the poor and disempowered as necessary. Fortunately, we live in the UK - home of fairness, where everybody’s voice weighs equally.
To answer your points:
This country has been debating staying in the EU since Major was in charge - it wasn't a snap decision it was just the government were not prepared to give the population the opportunity to vote on it - Blair promised but never did. If you are going to leave when would you suggest a good time was?

Perhaps to don't see a connection between high levels of vaccination and controllable levels of infection/death. Perhaps its a myth that virtually everywhere in Europe cases are rising except the UK. France-Paris back in lockdown, Croatia 50% increase, Germany doubled in March etc. UK 70% down in March. If the EU only allows dictates the supply of the vaccine and you get idiots like Macron playing politics then it will not end well. There was never any evidence that AZ jab was anymore harmful than a normal vaccine but it was produced by a UK firm so we end up a bonkers situation whereby the EU doesn't want to use the drug but also doesn't want the UK - who have no issues - to use it - what does that tell you about the EU?

Of course but we could have voted in John and Jeremy to shake things up - we can't really do that in the EU can we? If the Germans say jump everybody else simply goes how high - half the members are subsidised they are very unlikely to bite the hand that feed?

Where could we sharpen up - where do you start: Manufacturing, main stream banking, public sector, NHS, environmental etc. Where are we good - innovation, especially military, advertising, commercial banking etc.

Ah we're back to "what about Jeremy Corbyn" again are we.

When will Corbyn ever take responsibility for his disastrous handling of the economy and public services these past ten years, that's what we all demand to know.

Where has anybody suggested the state of the economy has anything to do with Corbyn? Just another one of your miss readings/understanding?

Well yes the EU has elected representatives and delegates with the key players all needing approval from our own elected government and the parliament being directly elected and major decisions requiring vote by the nation states. I do wonder what fantasy world you're talking about half the time.

Again, as if you're really upset about "protectionism" and all you've ever wanted in life is a bit of old liberal laissez-faire free trade. Really? Or is it just something to latch on to to beat the EU?

The world has divided into a number of regional trading blocs, regional because you trade most with those nearest at hand. Those blocs reduce or eliminate trade friction within. They don't massively raise friction externally.

You can believe that the UK is best served living outside this global reality. And I'm sure we could make a go of it as a low tax, low regulation, low pay economy as that's the best way to operate if you decide being inside your bloc isn't for you. (And especially if at the same time you passionately refuse to believe in making the investments which would differentiate us as a high knowledge, high skill, high wage economy).

The low tax and regulation route would work out just fine for some, maybe for you; not so much for the many however.

I dunno, you're the one who keeps mentioning them. Obsessed or deflecting attention, whichever. The reality is they've never been in power so what they would or would not have done is utterly irrelevant.