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Probably the one thing in this complete shambles that everybody agrees on is that May is absolutely useless. Having said that I am surprised that people on the remain camp have rejected her deal. Mainly because it seems to keep us in the EU . As for the Irish border issues, the Irish are playing a dangerous game. If we leave without a deal Eire will suffer. Over half of Irish beef is exported to the uk. That will be subject to a heavy tariff under wto rules. Also a large section of Irish exports are trucked across England and then onto Europe through the channel ports, any delays will hit them hard.

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"If you start listening to the fans it won't be long before you're sitting with them," - Wayne Bennett.:d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_438.jpg

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Every chance they've had to kick the can down the road they've taken. Never underestimate their desire to hang onto power.

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Quote: Cronus "But saying that I'll never back down on Abbott. The idea she could end up in government is truly terrifying.
I can never understand what it is about Diane Abbott that gets people like you so exercised - particularly when you support a party that includes such dullards as Nadine Dorries, Boris Johnson, Gavin Williamson, Dominic Raab and Michael Gove; all either incompetent, opportunist or just thick as mince, but they never seem to be vilified in quite the same way as Abbott.

I wonder why...? eusa_think.gif

On the wider issue - spinning this delay as a bit of statecraft from Mrs May is quite the reach; pulling the vote because you know you're going to lose is somehow ok, whereas voting again on a matter that now has much more detail and clarity, is a betrayal of democracy?

As for the Labour position - it seems quite clear to me; they can't reverse Brexit for obvious reasons, so they're looking at the wider issues of dealing with poverty, homelessness, NHS and schools, and that requires them to be in power - hence the push for a GE; and to criticise the opposition for wanting to be in power is perverse - that's the whole point isn't it?

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"If you start listening to the fans it won't be long before you're sitting with them," - Wayne Bennett.:d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_438.jpg

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Quote: bren2k "I can never understand what it is about Diane Abbott that gets people like you so exercised - particularly when you support a party that includes such dullards as Nadine Dorries, Boris Johnson, Gavin Williamson, Dominic Raab and Michael Gove; all either incompetent, opportunist or just thick as mince, but they never seem to be vilified in quite the same way as Abbott.

I wonder why...?
eusa_think.gif eusa_think.gif eusa_think.gif

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Quote: bren2k "I can never understand what it is about Diane Abbott that gets people like you so exercised - particularly when you support a party that includes such dullards as Nadine Dorries, Boris Johnson, Gavin Williamson, Dominic Raab and Michael Gove; all either incompetent, opportunist or just thick as mince, but they never seem to be vilified in quite the same way as Abbott.

I wonder why...?
All of the above Tory politicians can actually add up some Mrs Abbot was incapable of doing when questioned on the Police cuts - nothing to do with her colour which is what you are alluding towards. Don't see the same finger pointing towards the likes of Chuka or Lamy - the latter is the most odious MP in the house his arrogance towards the whole Brexit has to seen to be believed right from the vote he has been suggests the politicians decide not the electorate

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Quote: Sal Paradise "All of the above Tory politicians can actually add up some Mrs Abbot was incapable of doing when questioned on the Police cuts - nothing to do with her colour which is what you are alluding towards. Don't see the same finger pointing towards the likes of Chuka or Lamy - the latter is the most odious MP in the house his arrogance towards the whole Brexit has to seen to be believed right from the vote he has been suggests the politicians decide not the electorate'"


There you go again - passing off the bumbling incompetence of *certain* types of politicians, but taking issue with Diane Abbott, because she misspoke some numbers on a live TV interview after an all nighter during the GE.

How about:

Dominic Raab, saying that he hadn't realised how important the Dover-Calais crossing was for trade?
David Davis, saying that a trade deal with the EU would be the easiest in history?
JRM - saying in the HoP that the best response to a close result would a 2nd referendum, then denying it?
Jeremy Hunt - the most hated health secretary in history, accidentally forgetting to declare that he made a fortune from buying houses off a Tory donor?
Boris Johnson - garden bridge, water cannons, arranging to have a journo beaten up, various racist things, etc etc ad infinitum?
Theresa May - there will be no GE; the meaningful vote will go ahead?

The list goes on - but it remains the case that Diane Abbott receives more abuse and targeted attacks than any other MP in the HoC, but it's somehow ok; I wonder why?

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[color=#000000:ogl9gbum]"Back home we got a taxidermy man. He gonna have a heart attack when he see what I brung him."[/color:ogl9gbum]:d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_50733.jpg



Quote: Sal Paradise "All of the above Tory politicians can actually add'"


Dominic Raab might be able to add up, but his recent admission about the importance of Calais/Dover was astonishing. Does he not know we are an island?

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Quote: bren2k "There you go again - passing off the bumbling incompetence of *certain* types of politicians, but taking issue with Diane Abbott, because she misspoke some numbers on a live TV interview after an all nighter during the GE.

How about:

Dominic Raab, saying that he hadn't realised how important the Dover-Calais crossing was for trade?
David Davis, saying that a trade deal with the EU would be the easiest in history?
JRM - saying in the HoP that the best response to a close result would a 2nd referendum, then denying it?
Jeremy Hunt - the most hated health secretary in history, accidentally forgetting to declare that he made a fortune from buying houses off a Tory donor?
Boris Johnson - garden bridge, water cannons, arranging to have a journo beaten up, various racist things, etc etc ad infinitum?
Theresa May - there will be no GE; the meaningful vote will go ahead?

The list goes on - but it remains the case that Diane Abbott receives more abuse and targeted attacks than any other MP in the HoC, but it's somehow ok; I wonder why?'"

Diane Abbot has been made to look foolish on numerous occasions. The main one being on sky tv answering questions on a London police report. She obviously hadn’t read the report but tried to bluff her way through which proved to be a disaster . Probably the reason she receives a lot of abuse is whenever she publicly fails she always plays the race card. Likewise with lammy. Before anybody accuses me of bias I think the Tory party also has its share of incompetents. Politics is one of the few professions in which you don’t have to have any qualifications . A classic case being the clown who yesterday grabbed the mace. Never had a job in his life yet sits in parliament. As our American cousins would say go figure.

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Quote: bren2k "There you go again - passing off the bumbling incompetence of *certain* types of politicians, but taking issue with Diane Abbott, because she misspoke some numbers on a live TV interview after an all nighter during the GE.

How about:

Dominic Raab, saying that he hadn't realised how important the Dover-Calais crossing was for trade?
David Davis, saying that a trade deal with the EU would be the easiest in history?
JRM - saying in the HoP that the best response to a close result would a 2nd referendum, then denying it?
Jeremy Hunt - the most hated health secretary in history, accidentally forgetting to declare that he made a fortune from buying houses off a Tory donor?
Boris Johnson - garden bridge, water cannons, arranging to have a journo beaten up, various racist things, etc etc ad infinitum?
Theresa May - there will be no GE; the meaningful vote will go ahead?

The list goes on - but it remains the case that Diane Abbott receives more abuse and targeted attacks than any other MP in the HoC, but it's somehow ok; I wonder why?'"


You can add to that 'no deal is better than a bad deal', mind you, I think that this covers 95% of Tory politicians and it's looking more and more like 'no deal' where we will end up.

Just on Abbott, it isn't just one comment on an election all nighter and whilst her constituants certainly keep on voting her back in, she's doing very well to remain in the shadow cabinet and one suspects that this is due to her loyalty to Mr Corbyn.

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Quote: Backwoodsman "Probably the reason she receives a lot of abuse is whenever she publicly fails she always plays the race card. Likewise with lammy.'"


Wow - those uppity black folks - they should learn to just take it on the chin, right?

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Quote: wrencat1873 "Just on Abbott, it isn't just one comment on an election all nighter and whilst her constituants certainly keep on voting her back in, she's doing very well to remain in the shadow cabinet and one suspects that this is due to her loyalty to Mr Corbyn.'"


I see - it couldn't be because she's any good, obviously?

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Quote: bren2k "I see - it couldn't be because she's any good, obviously?'"


It could be but, she isn't great when put under pressure on the TV, although just for balance, neither is our Prime Minister

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Quote: wrencat1873 "It could be but, she isn't great when put under pressure on the TV, although just for balance, neither is our Prime Minister'"


Lots of politicians flap under pressure - and yet they don't get the torrents of abuse that Diane Abbott does; why do you think that is?

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“At last, a real, Tory budget,” Daily Mail 24/9/22 "It may be that the honourable gentleman doesn't like mixing with his own side … but we on this side have a more convivial, fraternal spirit." Jacob Rees-Mogg 21/10/21 A member of the Guardian-reading, tofu-eating wokerati.:d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_755.jpg



I must admit to cringing at times when Abbott is on TV as I can sense the bigoted gammon masses frothing at their sets. But then i remind myself she is a black woman, born to immigrant parents who made it to Cambridge & has been elected & re-elected with 2/3 of the vote. Like Corbyn she is principally a local MP who has fought all her political life for her constituents, her beliefs & the less-privileged in society, often to her personal costs. Compare to the Tory cabinet, whose dedication to their local constituents usually extends to riding alongside the local hunt or a garden fete. Is Boris still going to lay down his life for his constituents to oppose the new runway?

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Quote: bren2k "Lots of politicians flap under pressure - and yet they don't get the torrents of abuse that Diane Abbott does; why do you think that is?'"



Either that she regularly flounders or, we could get into racist/femminist territory but, I dont believe this to be the case here.
Personally, I cringe whenever shes on Question Time or Newsnight and this is purely on how she comes accross.
The mainstream media may have another agenda but, I certainly dont.
She comes accross as someone who's heart is in the right place but that is woefully out of her depth, just my opinion of course.

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