FORUMS > The Sin Bin > British justice - Where is consistency and common sense? |
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| Quote: JerryChicken "Which HM Government opted out of for several sectors of public employee - NHS doctors being one such example.'"
Fair play.
Must have been after 2010?
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| Quote: WIZEB "Fair play.
Must have been after 2010?'"
Nooooo - long time before then, when it was first introduced ten/fifteen years ago ?
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| Quote: JerryChicken "Nooooo - long time before then, when it was first introduced ten/fifteen years ago ?'"
?
rlhttps://www.telegraph.co.uk/health/healthnews/10198367/EU-review-Doctors-get-trained-in-their-free-time-because-of-working-time-rules.htmlrl
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| Quote: Chris28 "Its terrible when all those machines get turned off on Saturday and Sunday isnt it? I'm surprised the mortuaries can cope.'"
Actually there is a very strong correlation between death rates and weekends precisely because there is a lack of more experienced staff on at the weekend.
Many consultants work on a rolling rota at weekends but they cover a multitude of wards.
So one week you will have a brain specialist on duty, the following week a cardiac consultant. The problem is that there specialisms are not always the ones that are needed at a particular time.
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| Quote: WIZEB "?
rlhttps://www.telegraph.co.uk/health/healthnews/10198367/EU-review-Doctors-get-trained-in-their-free-time-because-of-working-time-rules.htmlrl'"
EU W/Time regulations introduced 1998 and the software that we sell was capable of monitoring the rolling period of 17 weeks (or any term) at that time too - since then I have only ever been asked once to set it up for a client and as far as I am aware none of our thousands of clients have ever been reviewed, or at least they have never asked us how to provide the evidence necessary to prove they are complying.
Regulations that allow you to opt out = fekkin useless regulations.
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| Quote: JerryChicken "EU W/Time regulations introduced 1998 and the software that we sell was capable of monitoring the rolling period of 17 weeks (or any term) at that time too - since then I have only ever been asked once to set it up for a client and as far as I am aware none of our thousands of clients have ever been reviewed, or at least they have never asked us how to provide the evidence necessary to prove they are complying.
Regulations that allow you to opt out
Ok.
So were both right.
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| Quote: Durham Giant "Actually there is a very strong correlation between death rates and weekends precisely because there is a lack of more experienced staff on at the weekend.
Many consultants work on a rolling rota at weekends but they cover a multitude of wards.
So one week you will have a brain specialist on duty, the following week a cardiac consultant. The problem is that there specialisms are not always the ones that are needed at a particular time.'"
It was the implication that machinery stands idle at the weekend I was taking issue with. I've heard about the correlation you mention and can understand it tbh but it was the other bit of the post I was meaning
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| Quote: rumpelstiltskin "One doesn't need to spend a load more money to increase the efficiency of the system. Justice, be it in any of the Courts can be dispensed 7 days a week, in buildings which the infra structure is already costed and budgeted for. A simple re-write of Contracts would see those Staff, not already working weekends in maintenance etc, put on a rolling week rota of 5 days from 7. If British Industry can adopt and make this system work, why not the legal Profession? '"
The LEGAL PROFESSION? Are you really that ignorant? Solicitors already provide 24/7/365 cover for police stations and whenever their clients are up, they are represented. I am sure there would be no problem with night courts IF those working in them got paid accordingly. But that won't happen. As Grayling and his incompetent ideologues are slashing costs and pay by the million. There is zero chance of them paying more money.
I simply don't understand why you would think that processing more cases using more hours wouldn't cost more money. Of course it would. British Industry can work 24/7 but they can charge what they like for it. You don't want to pay, the plumber / mechanic / whatever won't turn out. Crime isn't like that - most can't afford to pay and unless legal aid does, then overall it simply will not happen.
And as you know if you follow the system at all, where it is at the moment is barristers and solicitors resorting to strike action. Doesn't sound like a governemnt that's likely to be throwing any more money into the pot to me.
Quote: rumpelstiltskin "You may well be right, in that there is not a backlog in the Criminal Court at the moment, but rlnot everyonerl takes such a sanguine view for the future.'"
Sorry, but an article by a very well-heeled City firm about tax faud cases really is utterly irrelevant to this discussion!
Quote: rumpelstiltskin "…
Not saying they get it right in every case, but I think a lot of judges are far more connected to the "real world" than most people give them credit for - especially the nasty side of life, which they undoubtedly see a lot more of than most.'"
Indeed. In fact, one of the most ridiculous criticisms you could level against the judges is that they “don’t live in the real world”. They spend all day hearing about, dealing with, analysing, reading reports on the most troubled, the worst offending, the mentally challenged, the poor and desperate,the violent, the professional criminals and in a lot of cases the dregs of society, case after case after case. Ironically, they live in (and have to confront) the “real world” about a thousand times more than most of us.
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| Quote: FlexWheeler "... Aaron adler who was 18 when he drove drunk and killed a grandfather and grandson, got a sentence of 42 years to think about what he'd done. That was in america. Just digest that for a second, 42 YEARS.'"
You want us to copy that hugely successful (irony alert) system?
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| Politicians make the law!
Sadly the judiciary have to apply it.
Says it all really
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| Quote: Him "Yeah we should work the doctors as much as possible. Tiredness isn't an issue here.
Just because one sector of the economy gets away with sh|tting on employees doesn't mean this should be extended everywhere.
A little off topic I know, but I'd advocate us going back to the weekend actually being a time when people can spend time with their families, not a workday.'"
Perhaps you'd like half day closing on a Wednesday as well? Whilst you ponder the good old days, and those beastly conniving Union Officials who sold out your Birthright, look up ROTA. That should explain where you're going wrong re the doctors.
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| Quote: Mintball "You want us to copy that hugely successful (irony alert) system?'"
Yes. A drunken scrote locked up for 42 years as opposed to 4 means the roads and general population are a lot safer by a factor of 10.
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| Quote: rumpelstiltskin "Yes. A drunken scrote locked up for 42 years as opposed to 4 means the roads and general population are a lot safer by a factor of 10.'"
If you're happy to pay for him to be locked up for 42 years, go for it.
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| Quote: Chris28 "It was the implication that machinery stands idle at the weekend I was taking issue with. I've heard about the correlation you mention and can understand it tbh but it was the other bit of the post I was meaning'"
Unfortunately, not just very expensive equipment stands idle at the weekend, so does entire operating theatres. It is good to see that Prof Bruce Keogh, and many Doctors to be fair, has recognised there is a long overdue need for working practices to change.
In your case, Doctor Rumples proscribes; rlREADrl....inwardly digest....repeat until you understand....with attention being focussed on the final two paragraphs.
The prognosis for enlightenment is mildly encouraging......
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| I think the fact that hospitals basically don't do doctors at a weekend is a true scandal.
But I don't see anyone persuading consultants to start doing routine operations on night shifts on a regular basis. You may sneer and diss them for that, but I express no opinion at all, save to say that it just ain't gonna happen any time soon.
A consultant does what he is obliged to do under his NHS contract, and then he goes off to earn some serious money in his private work, you know, private ops, consultations, medical reports etc. If you are going to oblige him to work nights say one week in three then he plainly cannot work in his private business that week and again, for just that reason, it can't be done.
Also if you are going to operate theatres for an extra 100 hours per week, where the feck is the money to do that coming from?
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