FORUMS > The Sin Bin > Marriage Equality Vote Today |
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| Quote: Gareth1984 "Have you not noticed the point that has been mentioned previously regarding birth defects in incestuous relationships, now this may not apply a same sex (or one in which one partner was infertile) incestuous relationship however it still applies to other incestuous relationships and explains why incest is illegal as it would be discriminatory to allow one type of incestuous relationship but not others.
The major difference between the two is that homosexuality is a sexual orientation. Somebody who is gay is exclusively attracted to members of the same sex, therefore without being dishonest to themselves and their partner marriage at is not an option at present. As far as I'm aware there is nobody who is exclusive attracted to their own siblings, nobody is being denied equal rights by virtue of not being allowed to marry their sibling. This is why the comparison between same sex marriage and marriage between siblings is such a terrible one.'"
So if a gay man was in love with his brother, would you support their case to get married? Would you support provision being made for such couples in the Marriage (Same Sex Couples) Bill? Admittedly we are only talking about a small number of cases, but hey, equality is equality.
The same gays you are lobbying for may want the state to recognise their love for their sibling.
Can you give me one reason why a gay man should not be allowed to marry his gay brother?
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| Quote: kirkstaller "
Can you give me one reason why a gay man should not be allowed to marry his gay brother?'"
If we cast aside the legality issue then there is none at all - when is your church going to offer this product and can I book me and our kid in ?
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| Quote: JerryChicken "You are right of course, anyone can marry anything, I could marry a rock in my garden or one of my fish from the pond, its a totally meaningless ceremony invented by various religions in order to give some credence to their teachings and a warm feeling of false security to their followers, a bit like Tesco Club Points for the religious - "If you're good Christians then The God will allow you to marry, and those gays won't be able to get at you any more".'"
So only Christans marry now do they? You mind is very confused.
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11327.jpg "Question with boldness even the existence of a God; because if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason than that of blindfolded fear." Thomas Jefferson
"For me, it is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring" Carl Sagan:11327.jpg |
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| Quote: Dally "As I said at the top - it's all about grabbing perceived "rights." '"
No its not about perceived rights, it's about an actual right which gay people do not currently have, a right which does not impinge upon the freedoms of others.
Quote: Dally "The whole gay marriage thing is pointless, nonsensical and hypocritical. '"
Would you care to explain why same sex marriage is those things rather than asserting them as fact?
Quote: Dally "The siblings comparison is not terrible it a good one as it highlights what it wrong with the concept of gay marriage.'"
It does nothing of the sort. It merely serves to highlight the desperation of the anti gay marriage brigade when they make such a comparison (as does comparing gay marriage to bestiality) and demonstrates that they are lacking in any kind of rational argument against same sex marriage.
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| Quote: JerryChicken "If we cast aside the legality issue then there is none at all - when is your church going to offer this product and can I book me and our kid in ?'"
I appreciate your honesty.
Of course I don't subscribe to the idea myself, I was simply demonstrating the slippery slope we have embarked upon, and also highlighting the hypocrisy of gay marriage supporters.
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| Quote: Gareth1984 "No its not about perceived rights, it's about an actual right which gay people do not currently have, a right which does not impinge upon the freedoms of others.
Would you care to explain why same sex marriage is those things rather than asserting them as fact?
It does nothing of the sort. It merely serves to highlight the desperation of the anti gay marriage brigade when they make such a comparison (as does comparing gay marriage to bestiality) and demonstrates that they are lacking in any kind of rational argument against same sex marriage.'"
We must beg to differ for reasons that have been highlighted above. Are you for or against same sex marriage between siblings? That would give them the same rights as other loving couples and would not impinge on others' freedoms. The only reason heterosexual marriage betwen siblings is taboo is due to the risk of abnormality in offspring and so the argument that same sex siblings have equal rights is spurious - they do not have the same right as non-sibling homosexuals (assuming the draft legislation still discriminates against siblings).
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11327.jpg "Question with boldness even the existence of a God; because if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason than that of blindfolded fear." Thomas Jefferson
"For me, it is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring" Carl Sagan:11327.jpg |
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| Quote: kirkstaller "So if a gay man was in love with his brother, would you support their case to get married? Would you support provision being made for such couples in the Marriage (Same Sex Couples) Bill? Admittedly we are only talking about a small number of cases, but hey, equality is equality.
The same gays you are lobbying for may want the state to recognise their love for their sibling.
Can you give me one reason why a gay man should not be allowed to marry his gay brother?'"
My opinion relating to incestuous couples in completely irrelevant here I am making no judgement regarding incestuous relationships. I am merely explaining why the comparison between gay marriage and marriage between siblings is completely asinine. My opinion is that incest is a very complex subject but that it is of complete irrelevance to the issue of whether same sex marriage should be legal.
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| Quote: Gareth1984 "My opinion relating to incestuous couples in completely irrelevant here I am making no judgement regarding incestuous relationships. I am merely explaining why the comparison between gay marriage and marriage between siblings is completely asinine. My opinion is that incest is a very complex subject but that it is of complete irrelevance to the issue of whether same sex marriage should be legal.'"
Comparisons aside, what is your view on same-sex relationships between siblings?
Give me an answer. Because at the minute it just looks like you're ducking out of a very difficult question.
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| Quote: Gareth1984 "My opinion relating to incestuous couples in completely irrelevant here I am making no judgement regarding incestuous relationships. I am merely explaining why the comparison between gay marriage and marriage between siblings is completely asinine. My opinion is that incest is a very complex subject but that it is of complete irrelevance to the issue of whether same sex marriage should be legal.'"
It is not. Why should homosexual male siblings not be allowed to marry when other homosexual men might be? Stonewall, et al should be campaigning vigourously to prevent this discrimination. Are they? If not, why not? Is it hypocrisy?
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| Quote: kirkstaller "
Give me an answer. Because at the minute it just looks like you're ducking out of a very difficult question.'"
Sigh, why must you continue this straw man argument?
Incest isn't relevant to the current regulations being proposed.
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| Quote: Big Graeme "Sigh, why must you continue this straw man argument?
Incest isn't relevant to the current regulations being proposed.'"
Of course it is. We are trying to examine the basis for allowing marriage and discrimination. See my immediately preceding post - why should gay siblings suffer discrimation as compared with other gay couples? It is plain wrong. If that is accepted where is the next line drawn and should any further lines be drawn? Maybe not. Maybe this infantile decision by the Commons is wrong. What do you reckon?
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11327.jpg "Question with boldness even the existence of a God; because if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason than that of blindfolded fear." Thomas Jefferson
"For me, it is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring" Carl Sagan:11327.jpg |
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| Quote: Dally "We must beg to differ for reasons that have been highlighted above. Are you for or against same sex marriage between siblings? That would give them the same rights as other loving couples and would not impinge on others' freedoms. The only reason heterosexual marriage betwen siblings is taboo is due to the risk of abnormality in offspring and so the argument that same sex siblings have equal rights is spurious - they do not have the same right as non-sibling homosexuals (assuming the draft legislation still discriminates against siblings).'"
I've explained in my above post in response to Kirkstaller my opinion on incestuous relationships is irrelevant. The only point I am making is that there are very real differences between marriage between two people of the same sex and marriage between siblings.
I've also explained in my original post to Kirkstaller why preventing siblings from marrying does not deny them rights as homosexuality is classified as a sexual orientation whereas the attraction to a persons siblings (or parents/offspring) isn't.
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| Quote: Gareth1984 "I've explained in my above post in response to Kirkstaller my opinion on incestuous relationships is irrelevant. The only point I am making is that there are very real differences between marriage between two people of the same sex and marriage between siblings.
I've also explained in my original post to Kirkstaller why preventing siblings from marrying does not deny them rights as homosexuality is classified as a sexual orientation whereas the attraction to a persons siblings (or parents/offspring) isn't.'"
This is ducking the issue. The only reason for the incest taboo in societies is the effect of future generations. With gay incest that is an irrelevance and so we are left with direct discrimination against incestous gays by inter alia non-incestuous gays. Morall unsound in my opinion. If you agree with gay marriage you must agree with incestuous gay marriage or you are hypocritical.
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| Quote: Dally "Of course it is. We are trying to examine the basis for allowing marriage and discrimination. See my immediately preceding post - why should gay siblings suffer discrimination as compared with other gay couples? It is plain wrong. If that is accepted where is the next line drawn and should any further lines be drawn? Maybe not. Maybe this infantile decision by the Commons is wrong. What do you reckon?'"
No it isn't it is an argument constructed to get out of any explanation of why same sex couples in a legal relationship shouldn't be allowed o marry.
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11327.jpg "Question with boldness even the existence of a God; because if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason than that of blindfolded fear." Thomas Jefferson
"For me, it is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring" Carl Sagan:11327.jpg |
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| Quote: kirkstaller "Comparisons aside, what is your view on same-sex relationships between siblings?
Give me an answer. Because at the minute it just looks like you're ducking out of a very difficult question.'"
As I've explained this question is completely irrelevant to what I have said whether my answer was that I was in support of them or against them or that I had no opinion of them then it wouldn't change the fact that the comparison between gay marriage and sibling marriage is completely asinine.
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