rlhttp://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2186431/Father-killed-hate-mob-wrongly-accused-James-Bulger-child-killer-Robert-Thompson.htmlrl

Unbelievable. Exactly why they were given new identities.

I have lost friends in Afghanistan.

Fook me stupid!!!!

He has friends ? I thought that his God would have meade them impervious to anything out there that could kill/harm them ? Obviously his God's not that bothered.

Pass.

The incredulity buildeth withineth me.

Quote: Ferocious Aardvark "The problem is that the country is in such a state that however worthy you think it may be, it simply can't afford the millions spent on Venables and his mate, and I could make a list of a million better uses of money. I seriously doubt that there is a vigilante mob who would seek him out and kill him. I think there are plenty who would hound him and make his life miserable but when people who have done nothing wrong find lifesaving or extending treatment unavailable or rationed, the inappropriateness of priorities is apparent. In modern times, before the state started spending millions on fake IDs, there is no trend of baying mobs ripping apart released killers. Indeed, I find it quite reassuring as well as surprising that so many murderers who are released without anonymity never seem to come to any harm at all from their victims' families let alone bloodthirsty mobs so where is the justification?'" Mr Justice Bean "There is understandable and legitimate public interest in the fact that one of James Bulger's killers has now been convicted of child pornography offences. "But there is no legitimate public interest in knowing his appearance, his location in custody or the exact location at which he was arrested and to which he might return on the event of being released "If there is, it is of marginal significance when set against the compelling evidence of a clear and present danger to his physical safety and indeed his life if these facts are made public." He added: "It is a fundamental duty of the state to ensure that suspects, defendants and prisoners are protected from violence and not subjected to retribution or punishment except in accordance with the sentence of a court. "That principle applies just as much to unpopular defendants as to anyone else." Mr Justice Bean said "one would have thought" that threats against Venables would have diminished but that there was "clear evidence" that was not the case. www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-me ... e-10820908

Quote: Ferocious Aardvark "The problem is that the country is in such a state that however worthy you think it may be, it simply can't afford the millions spent on Venables and his mate, and I could make a list of a million better uses of money. I seriously doubt that there is a vigilante mob who would seek him out and kill him. I think there are plenty who would hound him and make his life miserable but when people who have done nothing wrong find lifesaving or extending treatment unavailable or rationed, the inappropriateness of priorities is apparent. In modern times, before the state started spending millions on fake IDs, there is no trend of baying mobs ripping apart released killers. Indeed, I find it quite reassuring as well as surprising that so many murderers who are released without anonymity never seem to come to any harm at all from their victims' families let alone bloodthirsty mobs so where is the justification?'" Mr Justice Bean "There is understandable and legitimate public interest in the fact that one of James Bulger's killers has now been convicted of child pornography offences. "But there is no legitimate public interest in knowing his appearance, his location in custody or the exact location at which he was arrested and to which he might return on the event of being released "If there is, it is of marginal significance when set against the compelling evidence of a clear and present danger to his physical safety and indeed his life if these facts are made public." He added: "It is a fundamental duty of the state to ensure that suspects, defendants and prisoners are protected from violence and not subjected to retribution or punishment except in accordance with the sentence of a court. "That principle applies just as much to unpopular defendants as to anyone else." Mr Justice Bean said "one would have thought" that threats against Venables would have diminished but that there was "clear evidence" that was not the case. www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-me ... e-10820908

That's quite thought-provoking.
In fact, I need to think about that.

Like the sin bin but limited to 140 characters !!

Except that if it really is a fundamental duty, then it is one that is not carried out in 99.9% of criminal cases, as the overwhelming majority of offenders are not given permanent and highly expensive protection. So it is a bit naive to call it a "principle". A true "principle" would be one which you either had the means and ability to act upon, or at least make a good effort. the truth is that protection from the mob for the convicted is a rare commodity. Most would have to dial 999 like anyone else.


I think you are missing a fundamental point. This poor guy had, reportedly suffered at least a year of vile abuse and torment, before he eventually felt his best option was to end his own life, but he had done NOTHING to deserve it. If we have unlimited funds, manpower etc. why did the machinery of this mythical fundamental dutyu swing into gear and either give this man the same or a similar or adequate level of protection as Venables gets, or, at the very least, go public to make it 100% convincingly clear, certain and unambiguous that this man was not Venables, and that any further abuse of any sort, offenders would be arrested and prosecuted?

This tragedy kind of makes my point. You seem to be suggesting that it is almost fair enough that innocent people might die due to nasty malicious toerags, as long as the guilty are protected.

It is also worth stating that despite the apparent mistaken belief that this guy was a killer, and didn't have police protection, nobody killed him or attempted to do so, so far as we are told. Hesuffered months of malicious abuse and torment from a hate mob in the village of Garlieston, Wigtownshire, in Scotland.
Mr Bradley, who moved to Scotland seven years ago, left a heartbreaking suicide note which read

Why was he undeserving of protection to stop this? Perhaps part of the answer may lie in the modern trend that in general you can be ever more verbally vile and abusive, whether in the street, or on Twitter or Facebook or wherever, yet the law seems to be stepping ever-further away from the line onto the freedom of speech side. The impression is that as time goes by you are going to have to say something particularly repellent in future to get your collar felt. So perhaps the mob spouting vile hatred is just viewed as sticks and stones, and if you can't hack it, tough? "Call us if they start smashing your windows and breaking down your door"?

I know you didn't mean to, but the point I am trying to make is that in simply citing the sad case of Mr Bradley as a reason why Venables should continue to be protected at all costs, you have de facto dismissed the value of the lost life of Mr. Bradley without a comment. All he was, was a valedictory example of what Venables might face, and so [ihim[/i, or any other innocent mistaken identity case, getting suicidal due to a long campaign of abuse from the mob (and the authorities failing to sort it out) is presumably a price worth paying if it means that the adult paedophile [iVenables[/i does not.

Oh my facebook has the Venables thing on my timeline too, so so many sheep when it comes to cases involving children being murdered. What these facebook sheep seem to forget that Venables himself was just a kid, not a grown man, at the time.

p
Im not sure how you have made that leap. If in 99.9% of cases there isn’t a threat of retribution, then not providing new identities isn’t an avoidance of that responsibility. If in 0.1% of cases there is a threat of retribution, and that 0.1% are provided with protection congruent with the threat, then that responsibility has quite obviously been met.

The principle the judge is talking about isn’t applicable to the overwhelming majority of offenders, that’s why the overwhelming majority don’t get expensive new identities or protection. They have no need for it. Some do, so they get it.

As you have done your usual trick of ignoring the parts of the post you cant argue against ([ia post which actually contained nothing from me but was the reasoned judgement of the presiding judge explaining his reasons, under law that the protection given was not only needed but obliged, it was the person capable of making such a decision, making such a decision, explaining their reasoning and explaining why you are wrong[/i) and picking out a bit, that in isolation you can, rather than spend the next 5 pages with me explaining this, lets just leave it there.

If you look at the details of the case the police went out of their way to find out if both of them knew what they were doing and if that they knew what they were doing was inherently wrong. It was a major part of the case against them as the police and prosecution felt a defence of some kind of diminished responsibility should not (and could not) stand up to scrutiny. That is what shocked people most at the time in that they knew what they were doing.



They don't have to deal with anything if they hold an opinion that they should not be released which is the view of the mother. It's not for anyone to lecture the parents and to tell them to "deal with it". Of course vigilantism is wrong but that is stating the obvious and is not unique to this case.



I don't think forgiveness is necessarily the right word. I think constant hatred of someone is exhausting so giving that up can possibly free someone's mind up who was greatly wronged. Even that would be immensely difficult when Denise Fergus regularly sees Venables in the news.

As to Bin Lid he didn't wrong you at all. He organised some very nasty acts of terrorism but unless you were a victim you have nothing to forgive him for on a personal level. What is interesting about you bringing up Bin Lid is not the forgiveness angle but the lack of any mention of the way in which he died. He was basically taken out by the US State as they regularly take out perceived enemies either like that or via drone attacks. Justice, which is what Venables got, is out of the window it seems.

does it make a difference that he was a kid when he committed this evil act?

this week i've read the court report about what they did to that poor child, i've read the arresting officers interview in the paper and also his interview with panorama, last night i sat and cried reading what they had done. it makes my blood boil. to try in anyway to excuse their actions on the fact that they were children themselves and that they were abused is laughable!

there are plenty of abused children who grow up and never abuse. my own brother in law was abused, he grew up and became a social worker working in childrens services trying to stop the same things that happened to him.

jon venables was rearrested and charged in 2010 with child pornography offences, tell me that he didn't know what he was doing on that fateful day? tell me that prison has rehabilitated him?

i can truely understand some peoples view that they wish these two harm. they will never, ever live a quiet, normal life. everyday will be spent looking over their shoulders awaiting the moment someone realizes who they are and what they did, and what action that person may take. but do they really deserve millions of pounds having their identities constantly changed, new NI numbers issued, new addresses, new lifes? they committed the crime, they served the time/sentence handed down, they have been released into society, maybe, just maybe they should live with the consequences of their actions?

The point Denise Fergus makes is that had they not had new identities then this man would not have been able to be persecuted as he was.

So the argument is by giving them new identities it directs the mindless mob against the innocent. That should never happen and if new identities are indeed necessary there needs to be some form of well publicised mechanism available to deal with this for anyone who is being accused of being someone they aren't in this way. And going to the local plod office isn't it. It would need some kind of national body that came down hard on the vigilantes and if necessary relocated the one being wronged if that us what they wanted.