| FORUMS > The Sin Bin > Boris Johnson |
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| International Chairman | 18060 | No
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| Feb 2002 | 23 years | |
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| Jun 2023 | Jun 2023 | LINK |
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Your job is to say to yourself on a job interview does the hiring manager likes me or not. If you aren't a particular manager's cup of tea, you haven't failed -- you've dodged a bullet.:icons077e_files/5454-3678dentheman-msnicons.jpg |
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| Quote: bren2k "The document that was leaked over the weekend, and forced Kwasi Kwarteng to scurry onto the news media to defend, makes this argument moot; workers rights and protections were *deliberately* removed from the legal element of the deal, which makes them fair game in a post-Brexit situation. And anyone who does not see the creeping US style gig economy that we have now as being accelerated by that, is either wilfully dishonest, or thick.'"
We still come back to the point of why would any party reduce workers rights - these are the very people they rely on to keep them in power. It makes no sense. The idea was to enable to UK to make its own laws - why everyone is focusing on this is simply to have a go at the Tories over a fictitious threat. |
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| Player Coach | 15521 |  |
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| Mar 2010 | 15 years | |
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| May 2020 | May 2020 | LINK |
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| Quote: Sal Paradise "We still come back to the point of why would any party reduce workers rights - these are the very people they rely on to keep them in power. It makes no sense. The idea was to enable to UK to make its own laws - why everyone is focusing on this is simply to have a go at the Tories over a fictitious threat.'"
Then why remove it from the text that was legally protected?
It has long been said that the more swivel-eyed Brexiteers, of the Rees-Mogg and Francois variety, were interested in a bonfire of regulations; Rees-Mogg is on record as suggesting it in a Treasury Select Committee meeting. Now that the swivel-eyed have taken over the Tory party, it's entirely reasonable to assume that Boris Johnson is being held hostage by their extreme version of Brexit. |
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| Rank | Posts | Team |
| International Star | 17952 | |
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| Apr 2011 | 13 years | |
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| Sep 2024 | Sep 2024 | LINK |
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| Quote: Sal Paradise "We still come back to the point of why would any party reduce workers rights - these are the very people they rely on to keep them in power. It makes no sense. The idea was to enable to UK to make its own laws - why everyone is focusing on this is simply to have a go at the Tories over a fictitious threat.'"
Do you really think that the average Uber driver or worker in Sports Direct or Amazon warehouses, usually votes Tory ?
There is a move to make our workforce less secure and while it may be easier to move jobs, it will also be equally simple for companies to off load staff. Great, if you are wanting to make your company more profitable but, less good if you have a mortgage or rent to pay. |
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| Rank | Posts | Team |
| International Chairman | 18060 | No
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| Feb 2002 | 23 years | |
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| Jun 2023 | Jun 2023 | LINK |
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Your job is to say to yourself on a job interview does the hiring manager likes me or not. If you aren't a particular manager's cup of tea, you haven't failed -- you've dodged a bullet.:icons077e_files/5454-3678dentheman-msnicons.jpg |
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| Quote: wrencat1873 "Do you really think that the average Uber driver or worker in Sports Direct or Amazon warehouses, usually votes Tory ?
There is a move to make our workforce less secure and while it may be easier to move jobs, it will also be equally simple for companies to off load staff. Great, if you are wanting to make your company more profitable but, less good if you have a mortgage or rent to pay.'"
I think a lot of workers on minimum wage vote Tory - they would get 13m+ votes without them. We still come back to the issue of how do you attract staff - if things are really bad nobody will go there to work - as we have seen with the crop picking - according to labour tonnes of food has been left rotting in the ground because the farmers couldn't get migrant labour - they also couldn't get uk labour either.
Simple solution pay more and that is the reality of most businesses including mine - I have to be competitive or I will not attract the quality of people I need to move my business forward. Its not rocket science. |
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| Moderator | 12642 |  |
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| Jun 2007 | 17 years | |
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| Oct 2024 | Oct 2024 | LINK |
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'Thus I am tormented by my curiosity and humbled by my ignorance.' from History of an Old Bramin, The New York Mirror (A Weekly Journal Devoted to Literature and the Fine Arts), February 16th 1833.:d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_33809.png |
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Quote: Sal Paradise "I think a lot of workers on minimum wage vote Tory - they would get 13m+ votes without them. We still come back to the issue of how do you attract staff - if things are really bad nobody will go there to work - as we have seen with the crop picking - according to labour tonnes of food has been left rotting in the ground because the farmers couldn't get migrant labour - they also couldn't get uk labour either.
Simple solution pay more and that is the reality of most businesses including mine - I have to be competitive or I will not attract the quality of people I need to move my business forward. Its not rocket science.'"
There’s more to it than just pay though.
Also, if companies can undercut competitors by moving their priorities toward profits and clients, then workers good options are likely to become fewer.
It is a difficult balancing act, because profits and clients are the whole point businesses exist. And in many industries, companies are competing globally.
Unless there is a shortage of labour of the right type, workers rights, conditions, and pay will tend to be squeezed in a capitalist system by competing capitalists. Supply and demand and all that. People like Raab, for example, want that competition to be more aggressive and restraints on the capitalist system to be reduced. My concern, and that of many others, is that will damage people’s quality of life and our society as a whole.
You keep implying they won’t do things that are unpopular with the electorate, but if they can get in off the back of Brexit and a poorly led labour party, then they’re going indulge some of their pet projects - why go into politics if you can’t do some of the things you believe in? And a de-regulated economy, following the model of some Asian countries is exactly the sort of thing our Home Secretary, Foreign Secretary and Minister for International Trade believe in. They even wrote it down in a book, for avoidance of doubt.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-19300051
Why would they do it? Because they want to and they can. You and I and most of the rest of the country might agree it is a bad and unpopular idea. However, I don’t agree that democracy is going to protect us from it. |
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Quote: Sal Paradise "I think a lot of workers on minimum wage vote Tory - they would get 13m+ votes without them. We still come back to the issue of how do you attract staff - if things are really bad nobody will go there to work - as we have seen with the crop picking - according to labour tonnes of food has been left rotting in the ground because the farmers couldn't get migrant labour - they also couldn't get uk labour either.
Simple solution pay more and that is the reality of most businesses including mine - I have to be competitive or I will not attract the quality of people I need to move my business forward. Its not rocket science.'"
There’s more to it than just pay though.
Also, if companies can undercut competitors by moving their priorities toward profits and clients, then workers good options are likely to become fewer.
It is a difficult balancing act, because profits and clients are the whole point businesses exist. And in many industries, companies are competing globally.
Unless there is a shortage of labour of the right type, workers rights, conditions, and pay will tend to be squeezed in a capitalist system by competing capitalists. Supply and demand and all that. People like Raab, for example, want that competition to be more aggressive and restraints on the capitalist system to be reduced. My concern, and that of many others, is that will damage people’s quality of life and our society as a whole.
You keep implying they won’t do things that are unpopular with the electorate, but if they can get in off the back of Brexit and a poorly led labour party, then they’re going indulge some of their pet projects - why go into politics if you can’t do some of the things you believe in? And a de-regulated economy, following the model of some Asian countries is exactly the sort of thing our Home Secretary, Foreign Secretary and Minister for International Trade believe in. They even wrote it down in a book, for avoidance of doubt.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-19300051
Why would they do it? Because they want to and they can. You and I and most of the rest of the country might agree it is a bad and unpopular idea. However, I don’t agree that democracy is going to protect us from it. | |
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| Rank | Posts | Team |
| International Star | 17952 | |
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| Apr 2011 | 13 years | |
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| Sep 2024 | Sep 2024 | LINK |
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| Quote: Sal Paradise "I think a lot of workers on minimum wage vote Tory - they would get 13m+ votes without them. We still come back to the issue of how do you attract staff - if things are really bad nobody will go there to work - as we have seen with the crop picking - according to labour tonnes of food has been left rotting in the ground because the farmers couldn't get migrant labour - they also couldn't get uk labour either.
Simple solution pay more and that is the reality of most businesses including mine - I have to be competitive or I will not attract the quality of people I need to move my business forward. Its not rocket science.'"
And ironically, the increase in hourly rates, has brought with it more and more zero hours contracts and in the "delivery" sector, a move to increased numbers of "self employed" drivers, who are in everything but name, agency drivers, serving just one paymaster.
Back in the day, they would have been employed full time on a "proper" contract and entitled to sick pay and paid holidays.
Some of these people like being their own boss but, dont kid yourself that its progress. The same goes for Uber and many of the large employers, who now have a vast array of part time staff, to avoid the expense of NI and sick pay.
So, ask the question about "why" the government would want to lose employees protection from the deal ?? |
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| Rank | Posts | Team |
| International Chairman | 18060 | No
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| Joined | Service | Reputation |
| Feb 2002 | 23 years | |
| Online | Last Post | Last Page |
| Jun 2023 | Jun 2023 | LINK |
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icons077e_files/5454-3678dentheman-msnicons.jpg
Your job is to say to yourself on a job interview does the hiring manager likes me or not. If you aren't a particular manager's cup of tea, you haven't failed -- you've dodged a bullet.:icons077e_files/5454-3678dentheman-msnicons.jpg |
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| Quote: wrencat1873 "And ironically, the increase in hourly rates, has brought with it more and more zero hours contracts and in the "delivery" sector, a move to increased numbers of "self employed" drivers, who are in everything but name, agency drivers, serving just one paymaster.
Back in the day, they would have been employed full time on a "proper" contract and entitled to sick pay and paid holidays.
Some of these people like being their own boss but, dont kid yourself that its progress. The same goes for Uber and many of the large employers, who now have a vast array of part time staff, to avoid the expense of NI and sick pay.
So, ask the question about "why" the government would want to lose employees protection from the deal ??'"
I would never employ anyone on a zero hours contract - I don't think it is correct but it does suit some people. I need take Uber prefer Amber in Leeds although I think they are pretty much self employed.
I employ 170 drivers none on zero hour contracts I do have a big demand from self-employed drivers and lose drivers to it - IR35 will put a stop to that.
Employee protection was part of a whole raft of items that moved from the EU control to the UK Parliament as part of Boris' WA - Labour just highlighted it as an easy target - when they have no evidence whatsoever that the Tories will do anything and there is no evidence to base it on. Just Labour grasping at straws - project fear. |
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| Rank | Posts | Team |
| Player Coach | 3092 | No
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| Feb 2006 | 19 years | |
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| Mar 2023 | Feb 2023 | LINK |
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"Brian McDermott, with a wry smile, nods when asked if he remembers a specific incident which made him realise he was a prick. 'I do', he murmurs.":22575.gif |
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| Quote: Sal Paradise "We still come back to the point of why would any party reduce workers rights - '"
Because these are the sorts of socialist interventions into the free market which you have been warning us about? I'd have thought you'd be manning the barricades to get rid of them; or does your forceful bluster about Marxism and Socialism waver when it comes to actual details? |
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| Rank | Posts | Team |
| International Star | 4091 | No
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| Aug 2014 | 10 years | |
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| Dec 2022 | Nov 2022 | LINK |
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Boris Johnson said he’d rather be dead in a ditch than extend the Brexit deadline beyond 31st October
Once again he’s been shown to be a proven liar, you can’t trust a single word he says
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| Rank | Posts | Team |
| International Star | 6848 | No
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| Jul 2012 | 12 years | |
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| Feb 2023 | Jul 2021 | LINK |
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What you looking at?....Butt Head!!:d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_68072.jpg |
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| Quote: Sir Kevin Sinfield "Boris Johnson said he’d rather be dead in a ditch than extend the Brexit deadline beyond 31st October
Once again he’s been shown to be a proven liar, you can’t trust a single word he says'"
Never trust any politician. You will always end up disappointed. |
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| Rank | Posts | Team |
| International Star | 4091 | No
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| Aug 2014 | 10 years | |
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| Dec 2022 | Nov 2022 | LINK |
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Alexander Boris De Pfeffel Johnson is the least trustworthy of them all
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| Rank | Posts | Team |
| International Chairman | 18060 | No
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| Feb 2002 | 23 years | |
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| Jun 2023 | Jun 2023 | LINK |
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icons077e_files/5454-3678dentheman-msnicons.jpg
Your job is to say to yourself on a job interview does the hiring manager likes me or not. If you aren't a particular manager's cup of tea, you haven't failed -- you've dodged a bullet.:icons077e_files/5454-3678dentheman-msnicons.jpg |
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| Quote: The Ghost of '99 "Because these are the sorts of socialist interventions into the free market which you have been warning us about? I'd have thought you'd be manning the barricades to get rid of them; or does your forceful bluster about Marxism and Socialism waver when it comes to actual details?'"
As you don't actually employ anybody you wouldn't understand how competitive it is to find and recruit talented people - offering worse terms than a rival is hardly going to help your recruitment position and the overall competitiveness of your business - take it from someone who employs 300+ people. This is not some free market think tank this is the reality in the trenches - you should try it some time!! |
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| Player Coach | 15521 | |
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| Mar 2010 | 15 years | |
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| May 2020 | May 2020 | LINK |
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| Quote: Sal Paradise "As you don't actually employ anybody you wouldn't understand how competitive it is to find and recruit talented people - offering worse terms than a rival is hardly going to help your recruitment position and the overall competitiveness of your business - take it from someone who employs 300+ people. This is not some free market think tank this is the reality in the trenches - you should try it some time!!'"
You're ignoring, probably wilfully, the fact that in a bonfire of regulations, the recruits you currently have to fight for, won't have better options; hence why it is often referred to as a race to the bottom.
And before you start rattling on about your business empire - yes, I employ people, in large number. |
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| Rank | Posts | Team |
| International Chairman | 18060 | No
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| Feb 2002 | 23 years | |
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| Jun 2023 | Jun 2023 | LINK |
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icons077e_files/5454-3678dentheman-msnicons.jpg
Your job is to say to yourself on a job interview does the hiring manager likes me or not. If you aren't a particular manager's cup of tea, you haven't failed -- you've dodged a bullet.:icons077e_files/5454-3678dentheman-msnicons.jpg |
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| Quote: bren2k "You're ignoring, probably wilfully, the fact that in a bonfire of regulations, the recruits you currently have to fight for, won't have better options; hence why it is often referred to as a race to the bottom.
And before you start rattling on about your business empire - yes, I employ people, in large number.'"
Of course you do - but it wont be your money at risk or your business!! - there will always be a scramble for talent business is a game played by people simple. Good employers will always compete for the best people its how business grow and prosper its the quality of the human capital that people invest in. The only way this changes is if you nationalise everything and then you will a reduction in quality opportunities. |
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| Rank | Posts | Team |
| Player Coach | 15521 | |
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| Mar 2010 | 15 years | |
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| May 2020 | May 2020 | LINK |
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| Quote: Sal Paradise "Of course you do - but it wont be your money at risk or your business!!'"
Wrong; you really should stop this assumption habit - it's bad for your argument.
Quote: Sal Paradise "there will always be a scramble for talent business is a game played by people simple. Good employers will always compete for the best people its how business grow and prosper its the quality of the human capital that people invest in. The only way this changes is if you nationalise everything and then you will a reduction in quality opportunities.'"
That literally makes no sense - at all. |
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