Quote: Exiled down south "I work in the technology sector and I can assure you that management concern themselves with the better staff leaving to competitors and as such pay well and provide amazing working environments. I would argue that's market driven.'" It may be for a small minority but for the majority of people it's not. Businesses do not give money away so easily. Certainly any national company or multinational will have very tightly controlled budgets for things like labour cost increases. Those that don't usually fall into financial difficulty. Quote: Exiled down south "The railways are already nationalised, the tracks and infrastructure are owned by the government, all the rail companies do is run the service, I'm pretty sure they don't even own the rolling stock.'" They are also subsidised to the tune of billions e.g. www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2014 ... ds-subsidy Where's the sense in that?

Quote: Exiled down south "I work in the technology sector and I can assure you that management concern themselves with the better staff leaving to competitors and as such pay well and provide amazing working environments. I would argue that's market driven.'" It may be for a small minority but for the majority of people it's not. Businesses do not give money away so easily. Certainly any national company or multinational will have very tightly controlled budgets for things like labour cost increases. Those that don't usually fall into financial difficulty. Quote: Exiled down south "The railways are already nationalised, the tracks and infrastructure are owned by the government, all the rail companies do is run the service, I'm pretty sure they don't even own the rolling stock.'" They are also subsidised to the tune of billions e.g. www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2014 ... ds-subsidy Where's the sense in that?

And this is representative of the (greater) whole?

Yep. Most jobs in this country could actually be done to the same or similar standard by someone else. So an individual business' costs, profits and circumstances are generally the factor behind wages for most people. It's generally only in very (relatively) small markets or skilled labour where the market drives the wages.

Again, you're talking about a market that isn't representative.

There is a shortage of carers (mainly because the pay, hours and conditions are so bloody awful), so of course there is market competition for those people willing to do the job.

Most jobs aren't like that. Most jobs can be done by someone else and have plenty of people willing to do that job.

Labour is similar to any other commodity in that it's value is determined by the supply & demand for it. If skilled labour (in any sector) is hard to come by then chances are their value will increase. However, skilled labour probably represents a minority of jobs in the economy.

I've spent most of the last ten years working principally in engineering (Mining, Oil/gas, Construction, Industrial) and again the market drives price.

I worked on a huge industrial progamme in North Africa where workers were offered higher level HSE training. One of the company bosses said train equally across companies or you will create an imbalance in the market and as such introduce movement and then local inflation

So that's 4 more markets. Rather than me keep going on, maybe you could provide examples. I'm unsure what is representative.

Well. Astonishing article from the Mail. Quite wonderful: www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/artic ... ttlee.html

Well. Astonishing article from the Mail. Quite wonderful: www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/artic ... ttlee.html

He has lasted 4 days which is more than some thought!

I suspect if he doesn't raise his game he will be gone by Xmas

What have you seen in those 4 days to suggest that?

Raise his game? What do you want him to do?

It is widely reported that the owner of Hull City FC is withdrawing his significant donations to the Labour Party and encouraging "moderate MPs" to form a break-away party or join the LibDems. The whole thing has become a farce.

Assem Allam would make Brian Rix green with envy in his ability to turn absolutely any event into a farce.

His statement and that of other Blairite sympathisers proves just what value they place on democracy

Yes, because now he's been elected everyone should agree with everything he says or does. That's the problem with democracy, people can openly have opinions and beliefs, much like your belief that the NHS should be flogged off to the private sector.

Don't be so obtuse.

Allam can disagree all he wants to but to outwardly foment rebellion is not democracy, it is buying patronage.

Something he has vast experience of