Possibly to deflect attention away from the fact that they were mostly clueless idiots?

No matter what your jaundiced views of Liverpool supporters, you conveniently ignore what can only amount to institutionalised co-ercion and corruption, albeit from those in senior posts but certainly aided and abetted by the lower ranks.

What has emerged is a culture of lying and obfuscation. From the senior police officers in charge on the day, via the sheer ignorance of the FA, the ineptitude of South Yorkshire's other emergency services, politically-motivated briefings to the press, through to the appointment of a patsy of a coroner.

You have managed to come across on this thread as a very bitter Man U supporter, whose hatred of Liverpool FC and its supporters prevents you from actually taking an balanced view of the findings of the Hillsborough Independent Panel

No - just the usual stuff being recycled.

Oh how utterly delicious.
'Oh don't do that Alex!' yes it isn't nice is it Kelvin

Dunno if this has been covered and I'm on my phone so it's hard to check, but did anyone see McKenzie being doorstepped by a C4 News journalist the other day? He didn't enjoy his own medicine one jot. Someone should invade his personal space like thst every day until he dies or leaves the country. Most gratifying.

Minty put it on this thread.

It's class.

I like the ''have you still got a job'' comment.
Prick still thinks he's important.

You've just inspired me into a re-watch.

Man United supporter?

It's okay for you to categorize the police as "mostly clueless idiots" but it's not okay to say that the people pushing and trying to force their way in to the stadium were not partly to blame for the disaster happening.

The police were to blame for many, many failures that day. Many of which have been shown, but there will probably be many more which haven't even been shown.

Also to blame for the Hillsborough disaster are the people who were causing the pushing outside the stadium. Especially the people who were trying to gain entry without tickets. To suggest there wasn't people there making the situation worse is simply ridiculous and a lie. The people outside that stadium and causing the crush outside were a very tiny part to blame for the disaster that day.

Personally I place more blame on the football hooligans of the day for the disaster than I do on even those pushing outside the gates. That definitely includes hooligans at my club. So I'm not going to say that hooligans at my club should be partly blamed, even when they weren't even at Hillsborough, and accept the lie that there weren't many Liverpool supporters at Hillsborough that day who deserve partial blame as well.

The Hillsborough families were clearly the ones who caused this report to be written. They definitely didn't want any blame whatsoever placed on any supporters that day. The panel was clearly weighted with people who had prior connections to Hillsborough and were obviously going to give the families what they wanted. One of the main remits of the panel was consider the feelings of the families of the bereaved and report to them and update them regularly.

If the situation was reversed and this was a government report completely absolving a certain section of people from blame then you, Mintball and many other people in the Sin Bin would be all over the report and ripping it to shreds.

Mintball's continual "he passed the rumours on as fact" lies are clear, blatant and stupid. Her posts in this thread have been embarrassing and pathetic. Quoting "Why won’t MacKenzie tell us ‘the truth’ about Hillsborough?" as "Why Kelvin MacKenzie won't tell the truth." is utterly ridiculous and embarrassing. And that was probably one of 50 posts of manure she's made on this thread. But because she's on your side you simply won't, or can't, accept those ridiculous posts and tell her she was wrong.

I only came on here because Mintball made a rare visit to the Football Chat Thread on Other Sports and made the statement that Patnick should have his knighthood stripped. I asked her why on there but she'd left again, so I came on here to get an answer. IMO the resultant pages of posts since then have pretty much proved that all that mattered to Mintball was the fact he was a Tory MP and had been named as a source. That's all that mattered, and that's all she had.

Apologies for labelling you as a bitter Man U supporter.

Having read that tosh, you're not bitter, you are simply stark staring mad.

You are the first person to claim that anyone was "trying to force their way in". Though TBF the police did put out the lie that the fans had actually broken their way in. There was a crush outside teh ground due to thousands of people arriving at one end but only a very small number being able to exit at the other end, and enter the ground. This was not some sort of mad, deliberate, pushing and crushing - it's all on video, FFS so it's not as if you can even argue it - it was just too many people heading in one direction, with an immoveable solid barrier blocking the way.

If people were throwing themselves at the crowd trying their best to crush people in front of them then you would have a point, but there is no evidence at all of any such thing.


Or, as the actual evidence suggests, they were almost all people with tickets, anxious to get in to a big game, for which they'd paid.

Nobody is suggesting that there was NO supporter who arrived at the ground without a ticket but the common explanations is that these people would rob a ticket, or try to bribe a turnstile operator. Where was the MO ever used of breaking down the stadium gates?? Again, there's NO evidence that ticketless supporters were in any way a factor. And there is evidence - which i posted before but you obviously don't care to read - that AFTER everybody had entered the ground once the gate had been opened, the Leppings Lane End had let in only 24 (that's TWENTY FOUR) more people than it's designated capacity. That is to say, it contained pretty much exactly the number of people who had bought tickets for it.

So, EITHER
a) there weren't actually that many ticketless supporters trying to get in to the Leppings Lane end;
OR
b) there were, but an almost equal number of people who HAD bought tickets had for some strange reason never turned up, so the TOTAL nuber of ticketed + ticketless fans was the same as the capacity.

So admittedly we do not KNOW how many ticketless fans were in that end, but equally it does not matter, as the number of people in, was the number of people who tickets had been sold to. Plus 24. I take it you aren't seriously suggesting those 24 would have made any difference whatsoever?


But this is just nuts. It is idiotic to blame people for the disaster who were not even at the disaster. I wasn't there. Is it my fault?


Er, they clearly weren't.


I would suggest that they wanted to know the truth about why their loved ones had died. If your children were killed by supporters of your club, would you not want them blamed? Of bloody course you would, so please spare us such risible bull.


Libellous and totally unsubstantiated conspiracy bull.


And now you are insulting whole swathes of posters - without naming more than one - with more conspiracist nonsense. Breathtaking. And you can invent hypothetical straw men AND state conclusively how "certain posters" would certainly respond! You can't answer the points people are making, and so you go [iad hominem[/i, "well, that's what they would say, innit".


Wrong about what? What "50 posts of manure"? If I want to comment on manure posts then i will - indeed as this very post conclusively proves. Give me one example of a "manure post" and if you are interested I will tell you whether I agree or disagree.


Well if your job is done or you can't answer points sensibly then feel free to go back.

The constant pointless arguing about bloody Patrick was clearly a cover for their real feelings. Oh well they are wrong and that after long last is FACT!

This is a Human tragedy and national scandal not simply a football disaster anymore and there is plenty to discuss rather than whether one berk was deliberately covering things up or not... He can explain that to the right people when the time comes!

The fact that you thought someone with the name Lord God Jose Mourinho was a Manchester United supporter suggests ignorance worthy of a high court judge who doesn't know the difference between association football and rugby football.

John Terry's not guilty verdict in court.
Luis Suarez's guilty verdict in his tribunal.
Steven Gerrard's not guilty verdict in court.
Michael Shields guilty verdict in Bulgaria.
Michael Shields being pardoned by Jack Straw.
The not guilty verdict for Bernard Murray. The hung jury for Duckinfield.

And moving outside of the football related court cases, the original convictions of the Birmingham 6, The Guildford 4, the Maguire 7.

No debate anywhere there. The jury/tribunal rendered their verdict. Move along now.