If we had less migrants it would force wages up and more women could stay at home, especially if combined with a ban on non-residents owning residential property.

On the immigration thing - numbers will increase even more given the huge levels of unemployment being created by the EZ, the fact that English is often people's second language and as more people already have friends and family here. The EZ shows signs of creating even more unemployment and crises will come to light after 23 June. If we stay then numbers will increase - as they say "you ain't' seen nothing yet." That will lead to trouble and increased racism (for want of a better term).

The more population to pay for future pensions argument just isnt viable , as Him explains you then need more in future generations and so on , what is needed is everybody earning more income , paying more direct and indirect taxes and so on

Him is also correct with the expansion of the EU with countries not suitable economically

With regards immigration of highly qualified people from poorer countries within the EU ( and outside ) surely this means those countries will fail to develop and fall further behind the major counties , compounding the issues , we need more home produced work and help the weaker countries build themselves and their welfare systems up

We see the argument for cheap labour from the EU , but also hear the argument for labour protection laws from the Eu , so what are we suggesting ? , we want British workers protected but ' slave ' labour from poor counties ?

If cheap labour wasn't available the farmers would have to pay more for British workers and the result would be ? , 20p more for a cabbage ? , disaster

As Martyn Lewis has suggested , economically NOBODY knows what will defiantly happen , everybody on both sides are guessing , there are no facts , just opinions

And yet history is littered with CAST-IRON evidence rlhererl, and rlhererl and rlhererl (plus a hundred or so other books I could mention) of people benefiting enormously from KNOWING what will happen before it does.

Just how are we to reconcile the Great Sage of the Daily Mail's arguments with the above evidence?

Simple, really. Like every halfwit who repeats this garbage, Lewis' mistake is not in stating that complex and chaotic systems are, by definition, unpredictable (a.k.a. stating the BLOODY OBVIOUS

If you read Peter Liiley's recent article in the Daily Telegraph there are very good reasons to think things will be better out. if the EU barred us from the single market the would be in breach of international law provided we legislate appropriately as part of the leaving process. in other words the scare stories are just that. Our net contribution is equivalent to a 7 per cent tariff on everything, whereas average international tariffs are just 2.4 percent. In other words we are in effect paying well over the odds, if it's just about the single market as Cameron and Osborne pretend. In fact it's all about integration, joining the Eurozone and destruction of the values and systems that made this nation the most successful in history and allows others such as USA, Canada, Australia to enjoy good standards of living.

A couple of interesting articles in the Mail today outlining the spending by the EU bureauocrats and the general feeling around the northern Labour heartlands , mirroring what I've been seeing when asking people how they are voting

I've been wondering if the 'shy Tory' factor will also apply to some 'Brexiters'.

Really cannot understand why anyone would want to remain in such a failed, dysfunctional, misguided, arrogant and undemocratic organisation. Out for me.

Happy to report I've changed quite a few minds. So many people still feel uninformed and in my experience they tend towards the perceived safe option of 'remain'. After a good chat they soon move to 'leave'.

Given the desperation of recent claims by Mr Cameron and the nature of the personal attacks we've witnessed in recent days , I predict a vote to leave with a 62% to 38% split

Cameron is getting really desperate now. After allealling to the young, cheating with extending the online deadline and polls showing Brexit support still grieving he's now tryi g to frighten the elderly by saying state pensions will be affected. His fear campaign is so transparent that if people buy into it then I will despair. However, I do thin the shy Tory thing could be an issue. As it has become more acceptable for people to say they support Brexit I think remainers are shy of admitting how they may vote, I think it will be a close remain victory but it will destroy our future prosperity if it is.

Again as pointed out by Mr Farage today , before his ill fated attempt to get us a genuine better deal , he was saying " If we do leave the EU , we will still be fine "

Short memory there Dave

i will be voting out

the bookies favour us stayin in though by quite a margin , though it is getting closer

seems the ones who do their research will vote out

while the ones who havent taken notice much and will just read the cameron scaremongering headlines will come out and vote to stay in at the last minute as they fear change and dont really understand it all

What research have you done?

It seems the ' In ' campaign now have just the one answer to every question

Economy

No matter what the question , be it immigration,NHS,sovereignty,law making,EU bureaucracy,future deaper involvement just the same answer , Economy

I spent a lot of time reading about the pros and cons thinking about it.

Issues regard the economy are huge and from what I can perceive there is no long term detriment To the British economy as the pros and cons will work out eventually.m anyOne who says anything else is guessing as no one can really say what the effects can be as there are far too many variables.


WHat is also clear is that there will be a lot of instability which will last a minimum of two years and could be as much as 10 before it settles down.

There will be a huge impact on the pound I could see the pound dropping 25%nagainst the euro in the interim.
(I have already got my euros for my holiday in the summer).


The big worry I have got is after watching question time this week, seeing interviews with the brexiteers and looking at some of te headlines it appears to me that the brexiteers campaign is just full of petty little englanders.
The thinly veiled racism is only a small scratch below the surface.

I was at school fayrebtoday with Filipinos poles Ukrainians Irish Thai Africans , goals etc.
That brought home to me very clearly the argument that stop the foreigners coming in will soon be, send the immigrants home.
I don't want to back to the bad old days of the 1970s with the NF and BNP

So I have changed my mind.

I will be voting to stay in . Internationalism rather than petty racist ignorant nationalism.

That is because all politics comes down to the economy.


To misquote Clinton and Carville.IT IS THE ECONOMY STUPID