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FORUMS > The Sin Bin > Brexit Anyone ? (part 3)
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Quote: The Devil's Advocate "My apologies oh omnipotent one, there was me thinking you were a proponent of walking away from the dastardly E.U. or did you believe, like many of the buffoons, we would get an perfect divorce settlement?'"

I've stated my view many, many times on here, including in the last day or so. Knock yerself out.

Quote: The Devil's Advocate "Again, thank you for your succinct reply, your condescension is only outweighed by your obvious outrage that things aren't going to plan.

Why should Labour M.P's vote for a rubbish deal just because it's the best the Tories could manage to cobble together, after two & a half years?'"

Pardon me, but I presumed an MP's responsibility was to their constituents and to doing the best for their constituency and country? Even ahead of political points scoring?

Explain to me how voting down the proposed deal and pushing us towards no deal is doing that...bearing in mind roughly 60% of Labour constituencies voted leave.

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Quote: wrencat1873 "The deal as I understand it, is typical Teresa May stuff, keep everything simmering but not actually face the issue.'"

As I said, it does a job. It's not perfect but it will do.

Quote: wrencat1873 "Ireland has a stay of execution but, still remains the elephant in the room, we have a temporary customs union which we may or may not be able to extract ourselves from and we remain governed by EU law, whilst sacrificing our ability to affect it (our veto will no longer apply).'"

Any temporary measure is fine by me...it's temporary. I'm confident we can survive a little transition period. Ultimately we won't be governed by EU law, although we will probably need to align with EU regulations for a favourable trade arrangement...which, shockingly, is precisely what we do now.

Quote: wrencat1873 "Do you think this is acceptable, because, it appears worse than we currently have.'"

Of course the deal is (economically) worse than we currently have. It was always going to be and I've always been honest about that. Where we differ is that in my opinion it's worth it...certainly in the long haul. The only question is the degree of impact.

Quote: wrencat1873 "As for lobbying Labour HQ, I believe they are only bothered about thie own political future and couldnt give a tinkers toss about whether we are in or out.
The have NEVER properly comitted to leave or remain and merely hoped thet the Tories would implode (still possible).'"

Yep, Labour clearly don't give a toss whether we get a deal or not - as long as they get a shot at a General Election, which I doubt they would win. They're willing to throw us on the bonfire for the chance of a GE. The odd thing about this strategy is I'm not entirely sure Corbyn is comfortable with it. I voted Labour once, never again.

Quote: wrencat1873 "Immigration from the EU has understandably slowed and yet "controlled" immigration from elsewhere is already rising - maybe there was an agenda on this all along, there certainly was from certain sectors of the country.'"

There will always be large numbers seeking to move to the UK. Yes, more needs to be done to bring the non-EU numbers down but controlling EU migration is a start. Ultimately immigration rules will need to drastically harden sooner rather than later. Net migration cannot continue at the levels we've seen since 1998.

Quote: wrencat1873 "The whole concept of LEAVE was built on a sham, driven primarily by some very wealthy right wing "Tories" who, have safely protected their wealth off shore and yet it iw they who want us to leave the EU and the masses are too dumb to realise that they were being sold a pup.'"

Oh please, we see lies and exaggerations in every political campaign. You give to much credence to the rhetoric of both sides, and not enough to the depth of feeling in many communities that has been building for 15-20 years.

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Your job is to say to yourself on a job interview does the hiring manager likes me or not. If you aren't a particular manager's cup of tea, you haven't failed -- you've dodged a bullet.:icons077e_files/5454-3678dentheman-msnicons.jpg



Quote: wrencat1873 "You throw in the USA as the biggest single country that we trade with but, just how is this relevent.
Our trade with them is circa 80 billion ?? and with the EU 500 billion. THe deal with hte EU is slightly more impotant or, perhaps you think we can do trade deale with seperate EU countries ??

The physical border in Ireland isn't currently neccessary but, it sure as hell used to be and some of those border towns were smugglers paradise.
IF we dont have a free trade deal with the EU, goods of all types, especially those with substantially different tax rates would be moved in both directions and one hell of a rate (just as they did back in the day).'"


This country is awash with class A drugs and guns that are smuggled mostly from outside of Europe - especially the drugs. You can put all the borders up you want but you will never stop smuggling - so just accept like we have with drugs that it will happen and in trying to stop it you will end up with diminishing returns to the monies you will need to invest to stop it i.e. you will not cover the cost of the border by the duty savings you will make. As the drugs have shown these people are far too clever for the authorities.


Differences in pricing for product on both sides of the border exists now - especially as both sides have different currencies - do you not think this is already being abused?

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Quote: Cronus "Pardon me, but I presumed an MP's responsibility was to their constituents and to doing the best for their constituency and country? Even ahead of political points scoring? '"


Of course it is, however...


Quote: Cronus "Explain to me how voting down the proposed deal and pushing us towards no deal is doing that...bearing in mind roughly 60% of Labour constituencies voted leave.'"


The deal on offer must be rubbish, & not just the opposition M.P.'s think so, do you view them with the same contempt?

I've no idea how many Tory M.P.'s will fall back into line (what's the latest threat, cancel Christmas?) but the likes of Rees-Mogg, BoJo & Duncan Smith have no intention of changing their minds, surely for the sake of political point scoring.

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Interesting development - the Tories wheel out their grandstanding AG to yell at the opposition benches like a low-rent Brian Blessed in an am-dram production, defending the fact that he has put his party in contempt of Parliament by refusing to publish the full version of his legal advice, because it's "not in the public interest." A cross-party group responds by tabling a motion of contempt, and the speaker grants it time - so the Tories use parliamentary jiggery-pokery to have it kicked into the long grass.

This is desperate stuff - and for a party who claimed to want to take back sovereignty of the HoP, they're doing a pretty good job of riding roughshod over its powers in a desperate attempt to cling on to office.

Meanwhile, Ministers have been briefed to visit foodbanks, and duly do so over the weekend, posing for pictures like ghoulish trophy hunters and using copy/pasted 'approved' text to publicise their support for a societal ill that their own policies created. We really are living in the most turgid political period in living memory - I'm embarrassed to be part of it.

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Quote: bren2k "Interesting development - the Tories wheel out their grandstanding AG to yell at the opposition benches like a low-rent Brian Blessed in an am-dram production, defending the fact that he has put his party in contempt of Parliament by refusing to publish the full version of his legal advice, because it's "not in the public interest." A cross-party group responds by tabling a motion of contempt, and the speaker grants it time - so the Tories use parliamentary jiggery-pokery to have it kicked into the long grass.

This is desperate stuff - and for a party who claimed to want to take back sovereignty of the HoP, they're doing a pretty good job of riding roughshod over its powers in a desperate attempt to cling on to office.

Meanwhile, Ministers have been briefed to visit foodbanks, and duly do so over the weekend, posing for pictures like ghoulish trophy hunters and using copy/pasted 'approved' text to publicise their support for a societal ill that their own policies created. We really are living in the most turgid political period in living memory - I'm embarrassed to be part of it.'"


In what way are you part of it? If as a by bystander then either emigrate or try to do something about it.

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So for the first time in history this government are in contempt of parliament, what a sorry state of affairs for our democracy!

What I found equally baffling was there was a female M.P. on the opposition benches nursing a toddler, is that a thing?

Anyhow, I still have a sneaky feeling May's deal will get through eventually, leaving everyone unhappy - oh the joy.

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[quote="King Monkey":30st820n]Maybe a spell in prison would do Graham good. At least he'd lose his virginity.[/quote:30st820n]:d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_18919.jpg



I voted to leave the EU, however I've now changed my mind. I think the EU and our country is in need of major reforms, and Brexit was an opportunity to to deliver that change on both fronts, but instead of approaching this as an opportunity, all involved have approached this whole thing as a damage limitation exercise where we end up with a deal where even the people who negotiated it don't want it. The EU have shown themselves to be the greedy bullies that they always have been, and our government have shown themselves to be the bumbling baffoons they've always, and our democracy has become a shambles, and our government has become a diplomatic laughing stock.

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[quote="Tarquin Fuego":3e09qe5x] I love Jamie and have done since he was 10 years old. [/quote:3e09qe5x] [quote="The Reason":3e09qe5x]Hi Andy The Rugby Football League are in the process of reviewing the video that you are referring to. We do not condone behaviour of this nature and have contacted the player’s employer, Hull F.C., who have confirmed that they are dealing with the incident under their club rules.     Regards,   Matthew[/quote:3e09qe5x]:23521.jpg



Quote: Charlie Sheen " The EU have shown themselves to be the greedy bullies that they always have been.'"


In other words excellent negotiators, imagine what USA and the other countries will do to us when they realise we’re desperate.

Chlorinated chicken anyone?

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Quote: Dally "In what way are you part of it? If as a by bystander then either emigrate or try to do something about it.'"



Come on, we are all "part of it" by electing a government on the "austerity ticket".
We may not all have voted for the Tories but, within a democracy "we" are all responsible for it.

Would decent people emigrating help the situation or, reduce the need for food banks ? NO

We should all be equally embarrased and ashamed that there has been such an increase in the need for people to have to use food banks.

The rolling out of Universal Credit an its shocking implementation of this system is downright appalling and to ask people with very little money to manage on ZERO income for 6,8,10 weeks is a fecking disgrace and WE should all be appalled.

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[quote="King Monkey":30st820n]Maybe a spell in prison would do Graham good. At least he'd lose his virginity.[/quote:30st820n]:d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_18919.jpg



Quote: Sheldon "In other words excellent negotiators, imagine what USA and the other countries will do to us when they realise we’re desperate.

Chlorinated chicken anyone?'"


Well, according to Greece, 'nobody negotiates with the EU'

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[quote="Tarquin Fuego":3e09qe5x] I love Jamie and have done since he was 10 years old. [/quote:3e09qe5x] [quote="The Reason":3e09qe5x]Hi Andy The Rugby Football League are in the process of reviewing the video that you are referring to. We do not condone behaviour of this nature and have contacted the player’s employer, Hull F.C., who have confirmed that they are dealing with the incident under their club rules.     Regards,   Matthew[/quote:3e09qe5x]:23521.jpg



Quote: Charlie Sheen "Well, according to Greece, 'nobody negotiates with the EU''"


Who’d be stupided enough to try and negotiate from weakness...

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Quote: wrencat1873 "Come on, we are all "part of it" by electing a government on the "austerity ticket".
We may not all have voted for the Tories but, within a democracy "we" are all responsible for it.

Would decent people emigrating help the situation or, reduce the need for food banks ? NO

We should all be equally embarrased and ashamed that there has been such an increase in the need for people to have to use food banks.

The rolling out of Universal Credit an its shocking implementation of this system is downright appalling and to ask people with very little money to manage on ZERO income for 6,8,10 weeks is a fecking disgrace and WE should all be appalled.'"

Well take to the streets of London and protest. Nothing freaks the establishment like a large scale, unruly demo. Macron has caved in in France. Maggie caved in over poll tax.

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Quote: Dally "Well take to the streets of London and protest. Nothing freaks the establishment like a large scale, unruly demo. Macron has caved in in France. Maggie caved in over poll tax.'"



Unfortunately (or fortunately), there are only a few thousand people affected by the Universal Credit roll out, therefore, there are unlikely to be mass protests but, that doesn't make it right.

The poll tax affected pretty much everyone (although a few were in fact better off) can you spot the difference. c020.gif

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Quote: Charlie Sheen "I voted to leave the EU, however I've now changed my mind. I think the EU and our country is in need of major reforms, and Brexit was an opportunity to to deliver that change on both fronts, but instead of approaching this as an opportunity, all involved have approached this whole thing as a damage limitation exercise where we end up with a deal where even the people who negotiated it don't want it. The EU have shown themselves to be the greedy bullies that they always have been, and our government have shown themselves to be the bumbling baffoons they've always, and our democracy has become a shambles, and our government has become a diplomatic laughing stock.'"
its a shame you feel that now that you think we'd be better now staying in the EU because you've just given the reason to leave, I voted to leave simply because I want our country to be self governing and where the leader is accountable rather than employed and can not be removed, your right in saying the EU have become greedy the sooner we are out the better so we can rebuild

if there is another referendum it will question the democratic vote simple as and any political decision will be arguably questionable until the mob gets its way, we will might as well be state run

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