FORUMS > The Sin Bin > Bedroom Tax - A Solution ? |
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| Quote: cod'ead " Rolling all benefits into a single payment may be a good way to encourage claimants to budget responsibly but there was a simple reason that HB was paid directly to the landlord - many claimants are simply incapable fo budgeting. '"
Well maybe they should learn to take some personal responsibility for themselves.
Budgeting is a skill and if they can't do it, they should learn.
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2051.jpg The older I get, the better I was
Advice is what we seek when we already know the answer - but wish we didn't
I'd rather have a full bottle in front of me than a full-frontal lobotomy
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kirkstaller wrote: "All DNA shows is that we have a common creator."
cod'ead wrote: "I have just snotted weissbier all over my keyboard & screen"
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"No amount of cajolery, and no attempts at ethical or social seduction, can eradicate from my heart a deep burning hatred for the Tory Party. So far as I am concerned they are lower than vermin." - Aneurin Bevan:2051.jpg |
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| Quote: Ajw71 "
And that is the simple solution that all heartless tories will suggest
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22483_1351031655.jpg :d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_22483.jpg |
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| Quote: cod'ead "And that is the simple solution that all heartless tories will suggest'"
Hardly heartless is it asking people to learn a new skill? A skill which will benefit that person for the rest of their lives.
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19170_1432331165.jpg A dog is the only thing on earth that loves you more than he loves himself.
When you rescue a dog, you gain a heart for life.
Handle every situation like a dog. If you can't Eat it or Chew it. Pee on it and Walk Away.
"No amount of cajolery, and no attempts at ethical or social seduction, can eradicate from my heart a deep burning hatred for the Tory Party. So far as I am concerned they are lower than vermin. " Anuerin Bevan:d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_19170.jpg |
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| Quote: Ajw71 "
My best mate is a former bank manager, now working in business finance. She can't budget to save her life but she has personal responsibility and has more skills than I can shake a stick at. She's been left home over 20 years and if she hasn't mastered the skill now she never will. My point is some people either never want to learn or try and learn and still find they're crap at it.
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1977_1349889235.jpg "You are working for Satan." [i:2886spie]Kirkstaller[/i:2886spie]
"Dare to know!" [i:2886spie]Immanuel Kant[/i:2886spie]
"Do not take life too seriously. You will never get out of it alive" [i:2886spie]Elbert Hubbard[/i:2886spie]
"We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars." [i:2886spie]Oscar Wilde[/i:2886spie]
[url=http://thevoluptuousmanifesto.blogspot.co.uk:2886spie][color=#4000FF:2886spie]The Voluptuous Manifesto[/color:2886spie][/url:2886spie] – thoughts on all sorts of stuff.:d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_1977.jpg |
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| Quote: Hull White Star "My best mate is a former bank manager, now working in business finance. She can't budget to save her life but she has personal responsibility and has more skills than I can shake a stick at. She's been left home over 20 years and if she hasn't mastered the skill now she never will. My point is some people either never want to learn or try and learn and still find they're crap at it.'"
The other point that Ajw71 conveniently 'forgets' is that for many people on low and very low incomes it's nearly impossible to budget to start with, given both low incomes and the cost of living, and is rendered even more so by anything happening like, say, the boiler going.
But hey, it's a useful lifeskill that [ithey[/i should learn – [ithey[/i being an homogenised group that someone like Ajw71 feels able to look down on without actually bothering to engage his brain cell.
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22483_1351031655.jpg :d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_22483.jpg |
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| Quote: Mintball "The other point that Ajw71 conveniently 'forgets' is that for many people on low and very low incomes it's nearly impossible to budget to start with, given both low incomes and the cost of living, and is rendered even more so by anything happening like, say, the boiler going.'"
Nearly impossible? - more sensationalist rubbish. Any excuse just so benefit claimants cannot take some personal responsibility! Don't you want them to make a better life for themselves, don't you want them to improve their life chances?
Quote: Mintball "
But hey, it's a useful lifeskill that [ithey[/i should learn – [ithey[/i being an homogenised group that someone like Ajw71 feels able to look down on without actually bothering to engage his brain cell.'"
"many claimants cannot budget" - Cod'ed.
Negative stereotyping hey.
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19170_1432331165.jpg A dog is the only thing on earth that loves you more than he loves himself.
When you rescue a dog, you gain a heart for life.
Handle every situation like a dog. If you can't Eat it or Chew it. Pee on it and Walk Away.
"No amount of cajolery, and no attempts at ethical or social seduction, can eradicate from my heart a deep burning hatred for the Tory Party. So far as I am concerned they are lower than vermin. " Anuerin Bevan:d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_19170.jpg |
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| Quote: Ajw71 "Nearly impossible? - more sensationalist rubbish. Any excuse just so benefit claimants cannot take some personal responsibility! Don't you want them to make a better life for themselves, don't you want them to improve their life chances?
"many claimants cannot budget" - Cod'ed.
Negative stereotyping hey.'"
Take yer blue spex off!! You're saying Coddys stereo typing but aren't you doing the same assuming its only benefit claimants who can't budget
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1408_1377158863.jpg [url=http://tinyurl.com/xmaschoccy:3awnsnxa][img:3awnsnxa]http://imgur.com/dR3Vl.gif[/img:3awnsnxa][/url:3awnsnxa]
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| Quote: Hull White Star "Take yer blue spex off!! You're saying Coddys stereo typing but aren't you doing the same assuming its only benefit claimants who can't budget
I'm not one to defend Ajw71 but I can't see where he's said that.
Simple budgeting should be part of an all round education and is something that administrations of both hues have neglected.
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Rank | Posts | Team |
International Board Member | 37704 | No Team Selected |
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2051.jpg The older I get, the better I was
Advice is what we seek when we already know the answer - but wish we didn't
I'd rather have a full bottle in front of me than a full-frontal lobotomy
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
kirkstaller wrote: "All DNA shows is that we have a common creator."
cod'ead wrote: "I have just snotted weissbier all over my keyboard & screen"
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"No amount of cajolery, and no attempts at ethical or social seduction, can eradicate from my heart a deep burning hatred for the Tory Party. So far as I am concerned they are lower than vermin." - Aneurin Bevan:2051.jpg |
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| Quote: Ajw71 "Hardly heartless is it asking people to learn a new skill? A skill which will benefit that person for the rest of their lives.'"
You're too dumb to argue with anymore
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Rank | Posts | Team |
Player Coach | 2359 | |
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Nov 2005 | 19 years | |
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Signature |
19170_1432331165.jpg A dog is the only thing on earth that loves you more than he loves himself.
When you rescue a dog, you gain a heart for life.
Handle every situation like a dog. If you can't Eat it or Chew it. Pee on it and Walk Away.
"No amount of cajolery, and no attempts at ethical or social seduction, can eradicate from my heart a deep burning hatred for the Tory Party. So far as I am concerned they are lower than vermin. " Anuerin Bevan:d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_19170.jpg |
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| Quote: Big Graeme "I'm not one to defend Ajw71 but I can't see where he's said that.
Simple budgeting should be part of an all round education and is something that administrations of both hues have neglected.'" Quote: Big Graeme "Nearly impossible? - more sensationalist rubbish. Any excuse just so benefit claimants cannot take some personal responsibility! Don't you want them to make a better life for themselves, don't you want them to improve their life chances?
"many claimants cannot budget" - Cod'ed.
Negative stereotyping hey. '"
Unless I'm reading it wrong and he hasn't made himself clear, he is suggesting that coddy is making excuses for the lower paid and it was Ajw who used the term benefit claimants (as above) and using the term them (benefit claimants again?)
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Rank | Posts | Team |
Player Coach | 1978 | No Team Selected |
Joined | Service | Reputation |
Feb 2006 | 19 years | |
Online | Last Post | Last Page |
Dec 2023 | Dec 2019 | LINK |
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22483_1351031655.jpg :d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_22483.jpg |
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| Quote: Hull White Star "Unless I'm reading it wrong and he hasn't made himself clear, he is suggesting that coddy is making excuses for the lower paid and it was Ajw who used the term benefit claimants (as above) and using the term them (benefit claimants again?)'"
What on earth are you on about?!
If you are going to try and twist my words at least make a half decent attempt at it.
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67953_1341943970.jpg Someday everything is gonna be different, when I paint my masterpiece
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| We shouldn't necessarily pick on the likes of Ajw71 for I have noticed these past couple of years that those of the 20 to 35 (ish) generation are broadly more supportive of the benefits cuts, I don't know if this will convert to Tory votes in 2015 but I have a few loose theories for the apparent lack of sympathy and empathy for the unemployed, disabled and benefit dependent low waged...
1. In that age group there is an opposition to the principle of paying tax, its of no apparent benefit to a young fit, healthy employee, eventual retirement is not on the agenda at all, the NHS is somewhere you go to when you've drunk too much on a Saturday night, your doctor is somewhere you go for birth control, there is no thought to what else goes into running a National Health Service, there is no knowledge of how things used to be for their grandparents before the NHS.
2. They have already been told that the NIS that is deducted at source every week/month is not for their benefit, its not for their pension and they won't have a pension when they retire, its to pay for their elder generation's pension and for a health service that sick, old people use - I'd feel resentful for that too.
3. Cynicism only comes with age and life experience, possibly they just don't understand that a member of government could actually be in the job for their own ideology and own financial benefit, and that when a member of government says that something is so and mentions in passing some random statistics, then maybe they just don't immediately think "prove it" but in stead think that it must be so and how lucky are we that they are doing something about it.
4. That undeveloped cynicism doesn't help them question the printed media either, there is still a big belief in the population at large that if a newspaper prints something then it must be true and that all newspapers are totally independent of government interference or spoon-feeding.
5. They have not yet lived through enough governments to understand that party politics are a destructive and wasteful past-time, that supporting a party regardless of its philosophy is not what government should be about and that the strong should, even in some small way, protect the weak in any civilisation - that it is as wrong to target the weak and poor as "shirkers" and in some way as leaches of your personal taxation as it would be to say the same thing about (for instance) black people (and that used to happen and was used by political parties too).
In short, when young you believe that you are far more invincible than at any other time of your life, you don't believe that your parents were ever young or that they have ever held any other viewpoint than the one they have now, if they tell you that they now have the experience to judge better you dismiss that as condescending - next time you have an opportunity to speak to a 20 or 30-something, just ask them what they think of the government benefit reforms, or of immigration, or the EU and see if you get a view more aligned with Cameron than not.
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Rank | Posts | Team |
Player Coach | 2359 | |
Joined | Service | Reputation |
Nov 2005 | 19 years | |
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Feb 2021 | Feb 2020 | LINK |
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19170_1432331165.jpg A dog is the only thing on earth that loves you more than he loves himself.
When you rescue a dog, you gain a heart for life.
Handle every situation like a dog. If you can't Eat it or Chew it. Pee on it and Walk Away.
"No amount of cajolery, and no attempts at ethical or social seduction, can eradicate from my heart a deep burning hatred for the Tory Party. So far as I am concerned they are lower than vermin. " Anuerin Bevan:d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_19170.jpg |
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| Quote: Ajw71 "What on earth are you on about?!
If you are going to try and twist my words at least make a half decent attempt at it.'"
The only one twisting something is the Tories, the knife into the backs of low paid workers and benefit claimants.
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Rank | Posts | Team |
International Board Member | 47951 | No Team Selected |
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May 2002 | 22 years | |
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1977_1349889235.jpg "You are working for Satan." [i:2886spie]Kirkstaller[/i:2886spie]
"Dare to know!" [i:2886spie]Immanuel Kant[/i:2886spie]
"Do not take life too seriously. You will never get out of it alive" [i:2886spie]Elbert Hubbard[/i:2886spie]
"We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars." [i:2886spie]Oscar Wilde[/i:2886spie]
[url=http://thevoluptuousmanifesto.blogspot.co.uk:2886spie][color=#4000FF:2886spie]The Voluptuous Manifesto[/color:2886spie][/url:2886spie] – thoughts on all sorts of stuff.:d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_1977.jpg |
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| Quote: Big Graeme "I'm not one to defend Ajw71 but I can't see where he's said that.
Simple budgeting should be part of an all round education and is something that administrations of both hues have neglected.'"
And if your (already low) wages are going down long term and the cost of living is perpetually rising, it's next to near impossible – not least when a spanner is thrown into the works like a blown boiler, for instance.
You cannot budget for any and all eventualities when you've no room to move beyond roof over head, basic bills and food on the table.
We're not seeing a rise in food banks because nobody using them can budget. The same goes for Save the Children having to provide help in the UK. UNISON is seeing an increasing number of members (that's working people) needing help with school uniforms and winter fuel grants, plus debt counselling. I interviewed one such counsellor earlier this year – this isn't people spending way over their 'budgets' – it's people getting into a mess because their wages are too low for a very basic standard of living.
That's the reality of life in the UK in 2013 – and a reality that individuals such as Ajw71 either do not realise exists or prefer to pretend does not exist.
And 'budgeting' is frankly just a way of palming the ultimate responsibility for that toxic mix of rising cost of living and falling incomes onto those who are most on the receiving end of it.
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Rank | Posts | Team |
International Board Member | 37704 | No Team Selected |
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2051.jpg The older I get, the better I was
Advice is what we seek when we already know the answer - but wish we didn't
I'd rather have a full bottle in front of me than a full-frontal lobotomy
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
kirkstaller wrote: "All DNA shows is that we have a common creator."
cod'ead wrote: "I have just snotted weissbier all over my keyboard & screen"
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"No amount of cajolery, and no attempts at ethical or social seduction, can eradicate from my heart a deep burning hatred for the Tory Party. So far as I am concerned they are lower than vermin." - Aneurin Bevan:2051.jpg |
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| Quote: Big Graeme "
Simple budgeting should be part of an all round education and is something that administrations of both hues have neglected.'"
Of course it should but as you say, it has been ignored for decades.
How would you go about teaching budgeting to a recently-released smackhead?
We've been teaching maths and English for centuries, there is still a sizeable number of the population who struggle with either or both
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