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Quote: bren2k "It's not biased news you dullard - it's a report about a poll carried out by Survation - who predicted the GE result with startling accuracy, despite it being very much against the received wisdom.

More broadly, I'm shocked that anyone still remains of the view that Brexit will be good for the economy; there is no evidence whatsoever to suggest that, and reams of opinion by economists and experts who are predicting that the negative effects will last for generations. I watched a Brexit documentary the other night, and Nicholas Soames MP, a true blue, bluff old Tory, described with some despair that anyone who thinks trade deals with the rest of the world will be sorted within 2 years was utterly deluded - this stuff takes years to resolve.

And if you voted because of immigration, you were duped; EU migrants are net contributors to the economy, and the Govt knew that, hence why they never used the powers they already had within the EU constitution, to limit their numbers.'"


I voted remain, I just don't trot out other people's opinions to validate my own, I don't need the internet to tell me what to think. Brexit is happening, what it will look like is anyone's guess, but I trust May and the Tory GOVERNMENT over a bunch of people already voted unfit for power.

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Quote: PCollinson1990 "I voted remain, I just don't trot out other people's opinions to validate my own, I don't need the internet to tell me what to think. Brexit is happening, what it will look like is anyone's guess, but I trust May and the Tory GOVERNMENT over a bunch of people already voted unfit for power.'"


There should be a cross party party group sorting out Brexit.
If you trust May, who has to control a bitterly divided party, especially in terms of Brexit, you are either very brave or, utterly foolish.
Yes, she has the job to do but, she hasn't shown any decent leadership since taking the reins and she wont lead the party through the whole of the Brexit process, there are already rumblings within the Tory party and it's only the timing of her exit that is still a mystery.
The current situation is a mess, both in terms of a flimsy government, propped up by the DUP (which in itself is not desirable) and Brexit is a worse mess.
We will be doing well to clear first base (agreeing the settlement figure) before the deadline, let alone the other details.

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Quote: bren2k "rlThisrl seems to sum it up; and this is from the polling company who predicted the Tories would have their majority wiped out, and were derided by Andrew Neil and co on Newsnight.'"


Polls for general elections are much easier given all past data from previous elections. You might want to read up on why they wasn't an exit poll when the Brexit vote was held and why trying to say "they got the general election prediction correct" isn't worth much.

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Quote: wrencat1873 "There should be a cross party party group sorting out Brexit.
If you trust May, who has to control a bitterly divided party, especially in terms of Brexit, you are either very brave or, utterly foolish.
Yes, she has the job to do but, she hasn't shown any decent leadership since taking the reins and she wont lead the party through the whole of the Brexit process, there are already rumblings within the Tory party and it's only the timing of her exit that is still a mystery.
The current situation is a mess, both in terms of a flimsy government, propped up by the DUP (which in itself is not desirable) and Brexit is a worse mess.
We will be doing well to clear first base (agreeing the settlement figure) before the deadline, let alone the other details.'"

I'll take brace or utterly foolish over saddled with bitterness and a belief in proven defunct utopian ideals.

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Quote: PCollinson1990 "I'll take brace or utterly foolish over saddled with bitterness and a belief in proven defunct utopian ideals.'"


Please explain "belief in proven defunct utopian ideals" ??

Are we talking the EU, T.May, British politics, Labours policies or, the world in general ?

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Quote: wrencat1873 "Please explain "belief in proven defunct utopian ideals" ??

Are we talking the EU, T.May, British politics, Labours policies or, the world in general ?'"


I think that is pretty obvious - Corbyn and McDonald - who spout more for many from their lofty position - therein lies the whole issue of the Socialist doctrine diatribe they effuse.

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Quote: Sal Paradise "I think that is pretty obvious - Corbyn and McDonald - who spout more for many from their lofty position - therein lies the whole issue of the Socialist doctrine diatribe they effuse.'"


Dont spoil it, I wanted them to answer their own comment.

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Quote: wrencat1873 "Dont spoil it, I wanted them to answer their own comment.'"

It's not spoiling it, especially when it's an accurate reflection of exactly how I feel. Socialism only works for those who don't have to pay for it!

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Quote: PCollinson1990 "It's not spoiling it, especially when it's an accurate reflection of exactly how I feel. Socialism only works for those who don't have to pay for it!'"


And capitalism works best for those who are adept at screwing over the rest.
We may as well have anarchy !

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Quote: wrencat1873 "And capitalism works best for those who are adept at screwing over the rest.
We may as well have anarchy !'"

How is capitalism "screwing over" anyone, the beloved, bloated and inefficient Public Sector feeds off the taxes of Capitalism.

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Quote: PCollinson1990 "How is capitalism "screwing over" anyone, the beloved, bloated and inefficient Public Sector feeds off the taxes of Capitalism.'"


So a capitalist system, without constraints or, without any social responsibility is the way forward, really ?
Do you think we could manage without any state intervention, really ?

Which hospital will yourself or family go to without state training of medical staff and where would your kids get educated.

As for how Capitalism screws people over, just open your eyes to the people cast aside by capitalist greed.

Of course we need people who are innovative and can run the economy and generate some wealth but, how can it be right for so few people to have such wealth.

Without any kind of social consciousness we are just animals, mind you, even they look after their own

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Quote: Sal Paradise "There was misinformation on both sides - Osborne said there would be a need for immediate tax increases if we voted to leave - that was clearly a lie.

To me the biggest issues were2. The ability to make our own laws
3. The cost of membership
4. The EU as an organisation - its corruption and wastefulness. When was the last time its accounts were signed off?

Leaving must give the treasury a financial gain as we will no longer have the negative £9bn a year it costs to be a member - if we assume the government pays out the £5bn in subsidies that are currently coming from the EU.

So with that more monies could go into the NHS and education and social care etc.'"


I think you'll find that the UK's parliament still has the ability to make our own laws.

And the Accounts signed off b0llocks is spin.

rlhttps://fullfact.org/europe/did-auditors-sign-eu-budget/rl

The US and UK both have worse problems in terms of the errors in payments. Should we get out of the UK as well?

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Quote: wrencat1873 "So a capitalist system, without constraints or, without any social responsibility is the way forward, really ?
Do you think we could manage without any state intervention, really ?

Which hospital will yourself or family go to without state training of medical staff and where would your kids get educated.

As for how Capitalism screws people over, just open your eyes to the people cast aside by capitalist greed.

Of course we need people who are innovative and can run the economy and generate some wealth but, how can it be right for so few people to have such wealth.

Without any kind of social consciousness we are just animals, mind you, even they look after their own'"


The state can only intervene if the wealth generators provide sufficient monies to fund it

Without those innovators the economy cannot generate any wealth - them have a lot is a bi-product of all of us having work

How do the nurses get trained and hospitals run in the US? - and private education is an option to get you kids to be able to read, write and add up

Most would agree we need a mixed economy but to denigrate the very fabric that provides the funding is plain silly.

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Quote: Sal Paradise "The state can only intervene if the wealth generators provide sufficient monies to fund it

Without those innovators the economy cannot generate any wealth - them have a lot is a bi-product of all of us having work

How do the nurses get trained and hospitals run in the US? - and private education is an option to get you kids to be able to read, write and add up

Most would agree we need a mixed economy but to denigrate the very fabric that provides the funding is plain silly.'"


I think that the point is, that there has to be a balance.
It's all about where to set the line, between providing decent public services and allowing people to prosper.
Pure Capitalism is based on greed, which is not conducive to a "fair" society.
I know that there are plenty of people who quite like it to be "unfair" but, these are often the same people that complain when they cant get their kids into their first choice school or, have to wait for a doctors appointment.
Since Farage hit the limelight, everything has been blamed on EU immigrants, which has provided the Tories with the ideal backdrop to impose it's austerity regime and their ideology would like to continue to squeeze the public sector just as far as it can.
At some point, we have to say enough is enough and personally, I think we are at that point.
We cannot continue to blame immigration and we have to find a mechanism to properly fund all of our public services.

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What would LABOUR do differently, where is Cordoroy? Is he making promises the exchequer can't keep, or is he giving an important talk to 616 Guatemalan refuges so he can massage his personal. "You've got to pick a pocket or two", he even looks like Fagin.

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