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Quote: Ajw71 "Of course there are. Unfortunately however it is a coalition policy (a liberal democrat one to be specific) hence it is automatically bad regardless of whether it actually helps people or not.
Boo!

Any answers forthcoming or are you simply here to cheerlead?

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Quote: cod'ead "Boo!

Any answers forthcoming or are you simply here to cheerlead?'"


Don't be silly.

He never answers questions: he lacks the facility to come up with anything other than a plagiarised soundbite, some poll or an 'oh yes, you're so right'.

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Quote: Mintball "No, you haven't.

I gave you answers to your stupid little 'questions'. You might not like the answers; you may well not agree with them, but I gave you answers.

I also answered your question about where the evidence on the costs of income inequality comes from.

It's your own stupid fault if you don't want to do some reading up on it, but don't come back pretending that you know anything about it.'"


As usual no answers just juvenile insults. At least you are consistent.

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Quote: Ajw71 " icon_wave.gif icon_wave.gif icon_wave.gif icon_wave.gif icon_wave.gif sleepy.gif sleepy.gif sleepy.gif sleepy.gif sleepy.gif

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Quote: Him "Why? And can you define social spend yet? Or why pure GDP is the sign of wealth of a nation?

What fact? You haven't stated any.

No it's not. Anyone who describes the French economy as a basket case, thereby equating it to Greece, doesn't understand economics. Having said that our dear Chancellor kept equating the UK to Greece so it's an easy mistake to make, especially if you don't know what you're on about.

Why do people on the right insist on making stuff up?

Do we? How are you quantifying how much is spent per head at school kids compared to other countries? Because they aren't easily obtainable or comparable figures. And how are you quantifying the outcomes?

What makes you think it's extra spending that means the outcomes today are worse (in your opinion) than in your day?
Are you saying that schools, teachers and students are more complacent than they used to be? Because I think you'd be in a minority there.'"


In our day teaching was seen as a noble profession a bit like nursing - under paid - a vocation. Can you honestly say that is still the case. If the standard of education is improving why are they dumbing down the exams?

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Quote: Sal Paradise "In our day teaching was seen as a noble profession a bit like nursing - under paid - a vocation. Can you honestly say that is still the case. If the standard of education is improving why are they dumbing down the exams?'"



Is that really true though ?

I like to think that my early 1970s O levels were "worth" so much more than my own kids GCSE's but when helping them with their homework a few years back either their coursework was as hard as I remember mine being, or I'd forgotten everything I was taught.

Just to preempt the reply that businesses are forever complaining about the standard of English and Maths in their young employees, there was nothing wrong with my O level English when I started an office job in 1974 but everything wrong with my application of English in those first months of that job, I'd never written a business letter before I got the job, had hardly even used the bloody telephone, but I was tutored by my employer and shown these things - something that most employers seem to expect to be already supplied as part of the school leaver package these days ?

Him
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Quote: Sal Paradise "In our day teaching was seen as a noble profession a bit like nursing - under paid - a vocation. Can you honestly say that is still the case. If the standard of education is improving why are they dumbing down the exams?'"

I've no reason to believe the teaching profession is particularly either over or undervalued today compared to the past.
I've also no reason to believe that teachers are overpaid.
Though, from my limited knowledge, I'd suggest its harder being a teacher today than in the past and that the role and duties of a teacher are not fully known/misunderstood by a lot of people.

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Quote: Him "I've no reason to believe the teaching profession is particularly either over or undervalued today compared to the past.
I've also no reason to believe that teachers are overpaid.
Though, from my limited knowledge, I'd suggest its harder being a teacher today than in the past and that the role and duties of a teacher are not fully known/misunderstood by a lot of people.'"


I did not say today's teachers are overpaid - I said teachers in our day were underpaid. Nor did I say the teaching profession was under/over valued by society. What I said was teachers saw the role as a profession and accept the T&C as an occupational hazard.

I would agree it is harder to be a teacher these days as the behavioural standards in society have dropped and the respect for your elders has subsided.

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Quote: JerryChicken "Is that really true though ?

I like to think that my early 1970s O levels were "worth" so much more than my own kids GCSE's but when helping them with their homework a few years back either their coursework was as hard as I remember mine being, or I'd forgotten everything I was taught.

Just to preempt the reply that businesses are forever complaining about the standard of English and Maths in their young employees, there was nothing wrong with my O level English when I started an office job in 1974 but everything wrong with my application of English in those first months of that job, I'd never written a business letter before I got the job, had hardly even used the bloody telephone, but I was tutored by my employer and shown these things - something that most employers seem to expect to be already supplied as part of the school leaver package these days ?'"


If you want to see how dumbed down the exams have become compare exam papers from the mid 1970's to now - especial in technically subjects such as Maths and Sciences.

I agree re. the last paragraph - but isn't that the point of education? It should be possible to combine knowledge with some life skills in the 11/12 years that kids are in the education system.

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Quote: Sal Paradise "If you want to see how dumbed down the exams have become compare exam papers from the mid 1970's to now - especial in technically subjects such as Maths and Sciences.

I agree re. the last paragraph - but isn't that the point of education? It should be possible to combine knowledge with some life skills in the 11/12 years that kids are in the education system.'"


I have compared them - there is a range of books published which contain O level exam questions from the 1960s and 70s, I stood and read the Maths one in a Waterstones a couple of years ago (wasn't going to bloody buy one) and couldn't answer one single question, and yet there was a time when I did and I got a reasonable grade (second time of taking), the fact that I then found my own childrens GCSE Maths papers hard to follow without the course work to back up the questions just shows that you have to take exams in context and not just have a sweeping view that its all dumbed down now.

Should be easy enough to teach some skills in replying in a business like way to an email or drafting a formal letter but businesses should also play their part and not moan about deficient skills if they haven't bothered with any input - how many 15 year olds get a valuable experience from their two week work experience schemes, not many I'd guess.

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Quote: Dally "As usual no answers just juvenile insults. At least you are consistent.'"


You were given answers.

If you claim you were not, then that's errant nonsense and patently stupid.

Indeed, I'd provided exactly the same answer to the 'question' on the RMT and pensions at least twice. That you don't like, agree with or understand it doesn't make it less an answer.

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Quote: JerryChicken "

Should be easy enough to teach some skills in replying in a business like way to an email or drafting a formal letter but businesses should also play their part and not moan about deficient skills if they haven't bothered with any input - how many 15 year olds get a valuable experience from their two week work experience schemes, not many I'd guess.'"


Especially those businesses who see virtue in avoiding paying UK tax and thereby making absolutely no contribution to the education budget

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Quote: Sal Paradise "Corporate tax decreases should benefit society as a whole - in theory - as more companies will look to domicile in the UK rather than take their affairs overseas.'"


Well as we head toward the end of 2013 that gets my vote for most naive comment of the year.

Please explain why a company that is currently paying 0% tax in the UK by domiciling in some other country (or by adopting other legal avoidance measures) is suddenly going to domicile here and start paying 21% tax because the government reduced it from 23%?

They could reduce it to 10% and it will still make no difference as no company will start paying tax at 10% when they can avoid it completely.

Where in earth did you get this totally idiotic idea that they would?

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Quote: Dally "But can they read and write properly? Mrs Dally was only saying last night how bad spelling is becoming in this country - when reading the latest document churned for us by our beloved friends in local government. These people lecture people on how to live their lives and seem incapable of the most basic task themselves. Bet they have iPads and iPhones though! Cool!'"


You are now changing the subject.

You said "Indeed, I would argue that an austere environment is preferable when it comes to education. Comfort breeds complacency (which in a wider sense has become a national problem)."

I responded to that basically lazy "the good old days" type of argument giving you an example of how a modern and certainly not austere educational environment offers a clear improvement on "the good old days".

Are you going to admit the example I gave you is an improvement or are you going to argue the system I showed you should be scrapped because you think there is a poor standard of literacy and numeracy in school age children?

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Quote: DaveO "Well as we head toward the end of 2013 that gets my vote for most naive comment of the year.

Please explain why a company that is currently paying 0% tax in the UK by domiciling in some other country (or by adopting other legal avoidance measures) is suddenly going to domicile here and start paying 21% tax because the government reduced it from 23%?

They could reduce it to 10% and it will still make no difference as no company will start paying tax at 10% when they can avoid it completely.

Where in earth did you get this totally idiotic idea that they would?'"


Didn't Ireland, which Osborne cited as a wonderful example of an economy to follow, go down the route of very low corporate tax?

What happened there, I wonder?

261 posts in 18 pages 
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