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Quote: IR80 "you have a seriously deluded view on life'"


Your school closed for polling today, is it?

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Quote: sally cinnamon "Yes but this is a stereotype that is just made up to support a point. All the younger generation today are wanting is a 'fair chance.'

It is a total myth that the earlier generation lived a life of thrift and sacrifice and younger people today are hedonists. Certainly when I was at uni and a young professional just after, people went out a lot - more than I see the graduate generation that work with us do. We were probably the boom years (2000s) of taking advantage of cheap holidays, in fact back then, it wasn't uncommon for people to do two 'gap years', one before university, then after uni. Even early-career after a couple of years working you would get people asking for a 'career break' to go travelling for a few months. This kind of stuff was going on, and people were still able to get on the ladder.

I'm not sure if the experience is totally different up north (where it's still more affordable to get on the housing ladder) but in London these avocado on toast generation just don't do the boozy nights out that we used to. They are a Netflix generation but they are probably spending less spending £8.99 a month and staying in watching endless box sets than my generation did going out regularly. Also one thing which amuses me at work is the older generation (who have houses) all seem to go to Pret A Manger and buy £7 worth of lunches a day, then tut at the price and say 'no wonder young people can't buy a house' and the graduates are all in a queue for the microwave having brought their own lunch from home to heat up.

The real thing that is stopping them being able to save for a deposit is the rents. Their salaries are being creamed off by landlords who see them as easy money. This should be recognised as the unfairness it is. When you get debates about Corbyn raising taxes on people over £80k etc, you immediately get a lot of people on or around that salary saying things like, I work damn hard for my money, what right does government have to take more of it away from me? But for 'generation rent', they are working hard and trying to chase their dream of escaping the drudgery of renting, moving every year when the landlord hikes their rent, getting fleeced with agent fees, and more and more of their wages are being taken away by landlords who see them as a cash cow. Even those who have managed to buy a house and are in those 'new builds', they might have the security of tenure but they have a similar situation with management companies fleecing them with service charges. These are their wages, which they are working hard for, and they are seeing increasing chunks creamed off by those who are in a privileged position in the property ladder. They see landlords and management companies in the same way that you see Corbyn wanting to raise taxes.

Lots of property owners have a story of thrift and sacrifice that led to them getting on the property ladder 'in their day', but the reality is the circumstances in which they bought a house - even up to my generation who graduated in the mid 2000s, was easier than it is today. The ratios of rent to take-home pay, and house prices to take-home pay were not as steep as they are now.

[OK...my generation faced those steep house prices to take-home pay ratios, but we benefited from access to generous mortgages which allowed you to get on the property ladder, and as long as you didn't lose your job during the crash, you benefited from long term super-low interest rates]

I do understand that being in London I am talking about a situation which is worse to that which people see in the north.'"


A well considered thoughtful post.

Landlords invest in property and as such they need a return that justifies that investment. Rents have escalated as demand has grown - simple supply/demand proposition and this will continue whilst ever getting on the property ladder is so tricky.

Builders invest in new builds - limited mortgage availability - so they sell large chunks to investors who have access to funds.

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Quote: Sal Paradise "Landlords invest in property and as such they need a return that justifies that investment. Rents have escalated as demand has grown - simple supply/demand proposition and this will continue whilst ever getting on the property ladder is so tricky.

Builders invest in new builds - limited mortgage availability - so they sell large chunks to investors who have access to funds.'"


Tory policy in a nutshell.

If you've got cash on the hip, you can make a lot more out of the people who haven't.

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Seems like a big turnout at the polling stations but, I can't decide which party will benefit.
Have the younger generation finally got off their backsides and voted or, is it a pensioners revolt ?

Our polling station was the busiest that I've seen it in over 30 years !

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Quote: King Street Cat "Tory policy in a nutshell.

If you've got cash on the hip, you can make a lot more out of the people who haven't.'"


Its Capitalism - you take a risk in the hope of that risk being rewarded - if its not you lose up to the value of your commitment

Better to risk and lose than to have never risked at all.

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Quote: wrencat1873 "Seems like a big turnout at the polling stations but, I can't decide which party will benefit.
Have the younger generation finally got off their backsides and voted or, is it a pensioners revolt ?

Our polling station was the busiest that I've seen it in over 30 years !'"


Ours is deathly - perhaps Hilary hasn't managed to get the young out of bed?

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Quote: Sal Paradise "A well considered thoughtful post.

Landlords invest in property and as such they need a return that justifies that investment. Rents have escalated as demand has grown - simple supply/demand proposition and this will continue whilst ever getting on the property ladder is so tricky.

Builders invest in new builds - limited mortgage availability - so they sell large chunks to investors who have access to funds.'"


True: but the problem comes when the returns that can be made from owning property (not just renting, but holding for capital accumulation) exceed the returns on productive investment (starting businesses, providing capital for existing businesses to expand etc) then it becomes a drag on the economy.

Especially when the high returns from owning property come from the scarcity factor, and the property-owning section of society has a vested interest in continuing that scarcity and not enabling market forces to work better.

The situation is getting progressively worse for each successive generation of young people that enters the labour market (and starts to vote). It won't go away, and unless the government starts to do something about it they will just be breeding a bigger and bigger block of voters who are susceptible to 'radical politics'. Then when an electoral backlash hits them, there will be lots of handwringing and people saying 'how did we miss this?' like the 'liberal establishment' missed the Brexit vote coming. The answer will be, in every time they ignored the situation for young people and just said if they weren't eating avocado toast they'd have a mortgage.

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Quote: sally cinnamon "True

Completely agree - low interest rates enables profits to be made from limited capital outlays. That is why greater access needs to made to enable young people to either buy properties or rent at more affordable levels i.e. council houses. If this happens rents will fall as options increase. An increase in interest rates will also take the heat out of the market too.

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Quote: Sal Paradise "Completely agree - low interest rates enables profits to be made from limited capital outlays. That is why greater access needs to made to enable young people to either buy properties or rent at more affordable levels i.e. council houses. If this happens rents will fall as options increase. An increase in interest rates will also take the heat out of the market too.'"


There is also the issue of land banks - companies buying up land and sitting on it, until they either decide to develop themselves or, sell it on for a fast buck - something that Labour has promised to deal with.
I realise that it isn't always a black and white issue but, in many cases, this practice can severely slow down development of new property, either residential or commercial.

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Quote: wrencat1873 "There is also the issue of land banks - companies buying up land and sitting on it, until they either decide to develop themselves or, sell it on for a fast buck - something that Labour has promised to deal with.
I realise that it isn't always a black and white issue but, in many cases, this practice can severely slow down development of new property, either residential or commercial.'"


I agree but as commercial organisations why would they invest in sites where they cannot develop them and make a return?

It will be a long time before Labour get to deal with this issue?

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Quote: Sal Paradise "I agree but as commercial organisations why would they invest in sites where they cannot develop them and make a return?

It will be a long time before Labour get to deal with this issue?'"


The investment to make a "return" isn't in question.
However, the validity of buying up land, to hoard it, rather than put it to use, isn't great for anyone - apart from the land owner.

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Quote: wrencat1873 "The investment to make a "return" isn't in question.
However, the validity of buying up land, to hoard it, rather than put it to use, isn't great for anyone - apart from the land owner.'"


Property is a long term investment so hoarding land fits perfectly with a long term investment strategy.

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Quote: Sal Paradise "Its Capitalism - you take a risk in the hope of that risk being rewarded - if its not you lose up to the value of your commitment

Better to risk and lose than to have never risked at all.'"


Apart from if you are a bank. In which case, you are too big to fail.

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Quote: cadoo "Apart from if you are a bank. In which case, you are too big to fail.'"


Completely agree - as a businessman banks inhibit business innovation - I have no truck with them at all

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I work for a developer, if we own it and have planning permission we build on it. Sitting on a multi million pound investment is a crazy idea as the longer you wait to get the ROI, the smaller that will be.

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