Exit polls for rioters

He's preparing his case even as we type.

So you agree then that if Duggan hadn't of been shot their wouldn't have been a riot?

Let him...

He tells porkies.





Wonder if Cronus will have a word for 'twisting articles to suit agendas'. I guess it's probably ok when it's their 'side' doing the twisting.

If you look at your bargraph, you will see that the SAME people gave a variety of things that they thought were a cause (a factor might be a better word).
It's a fair old list as well.
it's clear that the Duggan thing wasn't THE cause (as in singular).
It was a factor.

There wouldn't have been a protest march.

It was a contributory factor to the initial subsequent trouble, but had little directly to do with the looting even in Tottenham later that night. It had very little to do with the violence that spread throughout London and even less nationwide.

And if it hadn't been the Duggan shooting, another incident would have been the trigger. Note - the trigger, not the cause.

There was no other incident, it was a shooting.

The Duggan shooting 'triggered' (set off; initiated) the rioting.

So but for the shooting there wouldn't have been a riot.

(I'm just talking about Tottenham here. Not other parts of the UK)

The shooting did not initiate any rioting, it initiated a protest match and angry response. An incident at the protest gathering initiated some violence. The weak police response caused others to see an opportunity for looting and rioting. It's what's known as a chain of events rather than direct causality.

A causes B; B causes C; C causes D. That does not mean A caused D, or even necessarily C, despite being linked. Please try and understand that.

To say that without the shooting there would have been NO riots is to say there were no other reasons people rioted, which is clearly not true. The main cause of the initial violence -underlying anger against the police - would have been triggered by another event. That it was the shooting of Mark Duggan is largely irrelevant.

The clear difference between 'the Duggan thing' and the rest is that 'the Duggan thing' is the only single incident on there. The rest are perceptions of society and communications. Whilst nobody would argue that the rest of the issues weren't contributory factors, 'the Duggan thing' was the actual incident which set off the chain of events of which the riots were the consequence.

If A does not happen, then neither does C or D.

No one has said otherwise. It's called a chain of events.

That still doesn't mean A actually caused anything beyond B.

A (Shooting of Mark Duggan)

C (Riot)

Take away A, and C doesn't happenn.

Ie, No shooting, no riot.