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Quote: Cibaman "You have, the "British" gets included so as to not upset the Yanks. They'll probably still call it the British Open on the grounds that it takes place in the British Isles.'"


But Cameron's probably going to get all pi55y about that too and insist that that it can't be called the British Isles either now, and it's all Scotland's fault.

But I guess the Irish will be pleased about it, seeing as they don't recognise the name anyway.

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Quote: Lord God Jose Mourinho ".

I don't believe it is in the UKs interest for Scotland to have to go their own way with a new currency if they split. I think that is a way of trying to force the Scots to stay in the union.'"


This point has been explained to you by several posters and you still have not grasped the basic and key economic reality. In the event of Scotland voting to leave the UK they will leave behind all the benefits. They cannot cherry pick or demand benefits from what in fact will be another country. The BOE only has authority and responsibility over the UK. It certainly is not in the UK's interests to provide bail out guarantees to a new very very risky venture and one with a track record of needing massive bails outs in the recent past.

The news today that all the Scottish banks and financial institutions have given notice that if Scotland chooses independence then they would all have to relocate their domicile. The reason is crystal clear. They have to protect their business by remaining under the guarantee of the BOE. Even if they leave the majority of employees in Scotland they would lose the tax and lucrative peripheral business that surrounds head offices eg legal work.

Many other big business have hinted also at relocating the domicile among them Baxters and several leading Malt Whiskey brands.

Scotland if it keeps the pound without the BOE back up would be like a banana republic or perhaps it will become known as a haggis state because that is all they will be able to afford to eat.

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Quote: Lord God Jose Mourinho "But Cameron's probably going to get all pi55y about that too and insist that that it can't be called the British Isles either now, and it's all Scotland's fault.

But I guess the Irish will be pleased about it, seeing as they don't recognise the name anyway.'"


If you get your wish and Scotland leaves the UK you will be seeing much more Tory government. They always say every cloud has a silver lining!

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Salmond has already stated that if the vote is YES, he will reduce corporation tax by 3 points. He is banking on attracting inward investment but all that would realistically happen is (assuming what's left of the Union allow Scotland to remain within Sterling), the less socially responsible English, Welsh & Irish based companies would simply switch head office to take advantage of the tax reduction.

To counter that, we would have to offer a similar reduction in CT and prevent a massive haemmorhaging from the exchequer. That slack would then have to be paid for by either even deeper cuts than we are already experiencing or a massive hike in personal taxation.

Only LGJM seems to see this as a good thing

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rlAn intelligent and insightful dissemination of the potential problems of a YES voterl

Some commentators are suggesting that the very last thing Salmond was looking for was full independence. His real intention was a 3rd ballot option for Devo-Max.

It seems that the government called his bluff by offering only an in-out ballot, hence Salmond's inability to offer any tangible answers to questions about monetary union.

I am now tending to agree with those commentators

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Quote: Lord Elpers "This point has been explained to you by several posters and you still have not grasped the basic and key economic reality. In the event of Scotland voting to leave the UK they will leave behind all the benefits. They cannot cherry pick or demand benefits from what in fact will be another country. The BOE only has authority and responsibility over the UK. It certainly is not in the UK's interests to provide bail out guarantees to a new very very risky venture and one with a track record of needing massive bails outs in the recent past.

The news today that all the Scottish banks and financial institutions have given notice that if Scotland chooses independence then they would all have to relocate their domicile. The reason is crystal clear. They have to protect their business by remaining under the guarantee of the BOE. Even if they leave the majority of employees in Scotland they would lose the tax and lucrative peripheral business that surrounds head offices eg legal work.

Many other big business have hinted also at relocating the domicile among them Baxters and several leading Malt Whiskey brands.

Scotland if it keeps the pound without the BOE back up would be like a banana republic or perhaps it will become known as a haggis state because that is all they will be able to afford to eat.'"


To be fair the break up of Czechoslovakia was achieved fairly painlessly and Slovakia doesn't seem to have faired too badly since. Although their original intention to share a currency only lasted a couple of months.

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The 'Better Together' campaign couldn't put up a Labour representative for the Scotland Decides televised debate last night.

George Galloway was it's chosen representative. They must have given up. To hear a racist, rape apologist trying to defend the Union was quite something. He didn't do a good job at all.

Arrested at & carried away from protests over Trident, but avoided touching on the subject of nuclear weapons removal.

Even his closing speech centred around how Britain seemingly stood alone against the Nazis, nothing to do with the economic case for a No vote. He forgot to say that the decision to go to war came from Westminster alone.

The Scottish Tory was found out with her scare tactics yet again. Not one business has said it would leave Scotland.

Sturgeon missed so many open goals, but still came out with a win on the night.

Fascinating to see what happens next Thursday & what both sides try to do in the next 7 days.

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Quote: cod'ead "rlAn intelligent and insightful dissemination of the potential problems of a YES voterl

Some commentators are suggesting that the very last thing Salmond was looking for was full independence. His real intention was a 3rd ballot option for Devo-Max.

It seems that the government called his bluff by offering only an in-out ballot, hence Salmond's inability to offer any tangible answers to questions about monetary union.

I am now tending to agree with those commentators'"

I've thought the same since it all started. Salmond & the SNP's strongest position is arguing against Westminster. When they can't do that there's very little if anything that seperate them from Labour or the Lib Dems.

In the same way as the Israeli govt and Hamas need the conflict to keep their positions, Salmond and the SNP need a Westminster govt to argue against to keep their position.

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Quote: Him "I've thought the same since it all started. Salmond & the SNP's strongest position is arguing against Westminster. When they can't do that there's very little if anything that seperate them from Labour or the Lib Dems.

In the same way as the Israeli govt and Hamas need the conflict to keep their positions, Salmond and the SNP need a Westminster govt to argue against to keep their position.'"



I think he saw devo max as a stepping stone to full independence, not an end in itself. If its a NO result and they go for devo max he'll still look for every opportunity to argue that they need full independence, that everything that goes wrong in Scotland is due to the continuing Westminster control.

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Quote: Cibaman "I think he saw devo max as a stepping stone to full independence, not an end in itself. If its a NO result and they go for devo max he'll still look for every opportunity to argue that they need full independence, that everything that goes wrong in Scotland is due to the continuing Westminster control.'"

Of course he will. But that's what I mean, he needs that anti-Westminster argument to keep his position and his party's.

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Quote: LeagueDweeb "The 'Better Together' campaign couldn't put up a Labour representative for the Scotland Decides televised debate last night.

George Galloway was it's chosen representative. They must have given up. To hear a racist, rape apologist trying to defend the Union was quite something. He didn't do a good job at all.'"

I had to grind my teeth at finding myself agreeing with Galloway. Almost felt sorry for him - you could hear sections of the crowd of youngsters ridiculing him. The poor man looks like he's on a terminal downward spiral.

Unfortunately the 'No' campaign seem to have no-one with the wit and oratory skills to jump on the gaping holes in the argument. I've yet to hear someone deliver a clear and damning explanation of the currency issue that gets across in the cutting manner it should. Instead they limp from argument to argument and fail to convince even when the facts are on their side.

One ray of hope from last night is that many of the youngsters clearly see through the lies and sheer gamble of the 'Yes' campaign and weren't afraid to say so.
Quote: LeagueDweeb "rlAn intelligent and insightful dissemination of the potential problems of a YES voterl

Some commentators are suggesting that the very last thing Salmond was looking for was full independence. His real intention was a 3rd ballot option for Devo-Max.

It seems that the government called his bluff by offering only an in-out ballot, hence Salmond's inability to offer any tangible answers to questions about monetary union.'"

The 'Yes' campaign's stance on currency seems to have devolved to simply shouting "it's our pound too!" Well, yes, it is at present but if you achieve independence it won't be if. It'll be the English (or rUK) pound, entirely controlled by Westminster and the BoE. That's the bizarre hypocrisy of the argument: you want independence but are intent on clinging to a foreign currency which will be entirely controlled by foreign policy, which won't necessarily be geared to your economic circumstances. This despite Westminster and the BoE already stating that a currency union will not happen, which leaves only more precarious options. So perhaps you are correct in your comments re the 3rd ballot.

I just hope every Scot waiting to vote next week reads that article and others like it, and manages to see through the sheer lunacy of a 'Yes' vote.

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Quote: Cronus "I just hope every Scot waiting to vote next week reads that article and others like it, and manages to see through the sheer lunacy of a 'Yes' vote.'"


I hope that every Scot weighs up the full pros and cons for themselves before rushing to vote either way. Read as much as you can from either side and think about it. Irvine Welsh (who isn't eligible to vote) wrote a good piece about why it should be yes, and I found myself agreeing with a lot of what he said, even though part of me doesn't necessarily want an independent Scotland or think its a good idea. There may be an equally good "no" article somewhere.

I remember a Scottish character on "Absolutely" years ago who blamed everything bad on the "bloody English" and I suspect that there are a few still like that who will vote yes without working out if its actually a good or bad thing. The votes need to be cast on the basis of consideration, not hysteria. Perhaps the Scots could teach the rest of the UK about voting sensibly.

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Quote: Chris28 "I hope that every Scot weighs up the full pros and cons for themselves before rushing to vote either way. Read as much as you can from either side and think about it. Irvine Welsh (who isn't eligible to vote) wrote a good piece about why it should be yes, and I found myself agreeing with a lot of what he said, even though part of me doesn't necessarily want an independent Scotland or think its a good idea. There may be an equally good "no" article somewhere.

I remember a Scottish character on "Absolutely" years ago who blamed everything bad on the "bloody English" and I suspect that there are a few still like that who will vote yes without working out if its actually a good or bad thing. The votes need to be cast on the basis of consideration, not hysteria. Perhaps the Scots could teach the rest of the UK about voting sensibly.'"

it will not happen, the idiots will leave the pub after 3 pints of 6 shilling and vote yes, because of the damn English, no more thought will go into it. The majority of Scot's simply will not vote, as, like the English, we find all politicians to be forked tongued liars.

be interesting to see the % of the population that get involved.

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Quote: Chris28 "I hope that every Scot weighs up the full pros and cons for themselves before rushing to vote either way. Read as much as you can from either side and think about it. Irvine Welsh (who isn't eligible to vote) wrote a good piece about why it should be yes, and I found myself agreeing with a lot of what he said, even though part of me doesn't necessarily want an independent Scotland or think its a good idea. There may be an equally good "no" article somewhere.'"

You mean that sprawling, self-indulgent essay in the Indy? Doesn't wash for me. Firstly, it requires three cups of coffee to get through. Secondly, three quarters of it talks about nothing but his relatives, his childhood and his experiences meeting with immigrant communities in London as they gradually dominate his increasingly unhappy Aunt's community, who eventually sold up and moved to Edinburgh where she found a wonderful life in a city that 'loved her back'. He makes any number of sweeping generalisations relating to imperialism, class and 'assumed Englishness', all of which are based on little more than personal experience. He then predicts some utopia where Scottish independence somehow results in England, Scotland, Wales and Ireland becoming bosom buddies, and even the issue of NI is solved.

I get the point he's trying to make, but he's taken a relatively small range of issues which are by no means unique to England (or rUK) and a personal outlook and in his own mind grown it into the crux of the entire matter, which it isn't.

To weaken his argument further, he calls our noble flag the Union Jack. icon_wink.gif

Finally - and most importantly - he conveniently ignores any facts, figures or the economic consequences of a vote for independence. He doesn't mention currency once. It's an opinion piece, nothing more. I actually also agree with some of what he says, but as an argument for independence it shouldn't be taken too seriously.

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Quote: cod'ead "rlAn intelligent and insightful dissemination of the potential problems of a YES voterl

Some commentators are suggesting that the very last thing Salmond was looking for was full independence. His real intention was a 3rd ballot option for Devo-Max.

It seems that the government called his bluff by offering only an in-out ballot, hence Salmond's inability to offer any tangible answers to questions about monetary union.

I am now tending to agree with those commentators'"


Well for some time I have believed that Salmond vainly wants to go down in history as the hero that led the Scots back to independence. However I also have believed for the same period that he does not want the responsibility to make it work or fail. So hence his continual stance regarding the currency.

The last thing he wants is to leave the security provided by the BOE and I would not be surprised that, should he win, he would back down in the negotiations and accept the control (budget, interest rates etc) that go with keeping the BOE. This way he can continue to blame Westminster and the English for his likely economic failures.

I am English but have a vote next week so have been studying the arguments for some time now.

One thing becoming obvious is that after the vote there could be a lot of acrimony which could divide the people for some time to come.

The 'Yes' campaign has been much more visible with posters up at most roundabouts and roadsides whereas the 'No' campaign has been very low key due in part to open hostility from 'Yes' rabble-rousers. Voters that have displayed 'No thanks' stickers have had windows broken and well known supporters have received violent threats and are openly challenged for being traitors. The 'Don't knows' have been keeping their heads down too for the same reasons which could indicate wider support to the 'No thanks/Better together side than the polls have indicated

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Crusaders
15:00
Dewsbury
v
Newcastle
15:00
Rochdale
v
Swinton
15:00
Workington
v
Whitehaven
18:30
Keighley
v
Goole V
     Mens Super League XXX-R8
20:00
Hull FC
v
Hull KR
20:00
Wigan
v
St.Helens
20:00
Leeds
v
Huddersfield
 Sat 19th Apr 2025
     Mens Super League XXX-R8
20:00
Leigh
v
Warrington
20:00
Catalans
v
Salford
 Thu 24th Apr 2025
     Mens Super League XXX-R9
20:00
Warrington
v
St.Helens
20:00
Leeds
v
Hull KR
 Fri 25th Apr 2025
     Mens Super League XXX-R9
20:00
Salford
v
Leigh
 Sat 26th Apr 2025
     Mens Super League XXX-R9
15:00
Huddersfield
v
Castleford
17:30
Catalans
v
Wakefield
 Sun 27th Apr 2025
       League One 2025-R7
13:00
Cornwall
v
Keighley
14:30
Crusaders
v
Whitehaven
     Mens Super League XXX-R9
15:00
Hull FC
v
Wigan
       League One 2025-R7
15:00
Dewsbury
v
Rochdale
15:00
Newcastle
v
Goole V
15:00
Workington
v
Swinton
 Fri 2nd May 2025
       League One 2025-R8
20:00
Newcastle
v
Workington
 Sat 3rd May 2025
     Mens Super League XXX-R10
15:00
Leigh
v
Catalans
       League One 2025-R8
15:00
Rochdale
v
Goole V
     Mens Super League XXX-R10
17:15
Hull KR
v
Salford
19:30
St.Helens
v
Leeds
 Sun 4th May 2025
     Mens Super League XXX-R10
13:00
Huddersfield
v
Hull FC
       League One 2025-R8
13:00
Cornwall
v
Midlands
15:00
Swinton
v
Crusaders
15:00
Whitehaven
v
Dewsbury
     Mens Super League XXX-R10
15:15
Wigan
v
Warrington
17:30
Castleford
v
Wakefield
 Sun 11th May 2025
       League One 2025-R9
14:30
Crusaders
v
Newcastle
15:00
Dewsbury
v
Cornwall
15:00
Keighley
v
Workington
15:00
Rochdale
v
Midlands
15:00
Whitehaven
v
Goole V
 Thu 15th May 2025
     Mens Super League XXX-R11
20:00
St.Helens
v
Catalans
 Fri 16th May 2025
     Mens Super League XXX-R11
20:00
Leeds
v
Hull FC
20:00
Wigan
v
Leigh
 Sat 17th May 2025
     Mens Super League XXX-R11
15:00
Hull KR
v
Huddersfield
 Sun 18th May 2025
     Mens Super League XXX-R11
15:00
Wakefield
v
Warrington
17:30
Castleford
v
Salford
 Thu 22nd May 2025
     Mens Super League XXX-R12
20:00
Leigh
v
Hull FC
 Fri 23rd May 2025
     Mens Super League XXX-R12
20:00
Huddersfield
v
St.Helens
20:00
Warrington
v
Hull KR
 Sat 24th May 2025
     Mens Super League XXX-R12
14:30
Castleford
v
Leeds
17:30
Catalans
v
Wigan
 Sun 25th May 2025
       League One 2025-R10
14:00
Midlands
v
Whitehaven
     Mens Super League XXX-R12
15:00
Wakefield
v
Salford
       League One 2025-R10
15:00
Keighley
v
Crusaders
15:00
Rochdale
v
Newcastle
15:00
Swinton
v
Cornwall
15:00
Workington
v
Goole V
 Thu 29th May 2025
     Mens Super League XXX-R13
20:00
Huddersfield
v
Leigh
 Fri 30th May 2025
     Mens Super League XXX-R13
20:00
Hull KR
v
St.Helens
20:00
Salford
v
Wigan
 Sat 31st May 2025
     Mens Super League XXX-R13
14:30
Leeds
v
Wakefield
17:30
Catalans
v
Hull FC
 Sun 1st Jun 2025
       League One 2025-R11
13:00
Cornwall
v
Goole V
14:00
Midlands
v
Swinton
14:30
Crusaders
v
Rochdale
     Mens Super League XXX-R13
15:00
Warrington
v
Castleford
       League One 2025-R11
15:00
Newcastle
v
Keighley
15:00
Workington
v
Dewsbury
 Fri 13th Jun 2025
       League One 2025-R12
19:00
Dewsbury
v
Goole V
     Mens Super League XXX-R14
20:00
Hull FC
v
Castleford
20:00
Hull KR
v
Catalans
 Sat 14th Jun 2025
     Mens Super League XXX-R14
15:00
Huddersfield
v
Wigan
17:30
Leeds
v
Warrington
 Sun 15th Jun 2025
     Mens Super League XXX-R14
14:30
Wakefield
v
Leigh
       League One 2025-R12
14:30
Crusaders
v
Midlands
     Mens Super League XXX-R14
15:00
Salford
v
St.Helens
       League One 2025-R12
15:00
Keighley
v
Rochdale
15:00
Swinton
v
Workington
15:00
Whitehaven
v
Cornwall
ALL SCORES PROVIDED BY RLFANS.COM (SETTINGS)
Matches on TV
Thu 13th Feb
SL
20:00
Wigan-Leigh
Fri 14th Feb
SL
20:00
Hull KR-Castleford
SL
20:00
Catalans-Hull FC
Sat 15th Feb
SL
15:00
Leeds-Wakefield
SL
17:30
St.Helens-Salford
Sun 16th Feb
SL
15:00
Huddersfield-Warrington
Thu 20th Feb
SL
20:00
Wakefield-Hull KR
Fri 21st Feb
SL
20:00
Warrington-Catalans
SL
20:00
Hull FC-Wigan
Sat 22nd Feb
SL
15:00
Salford-Leeds
SL
20:00
Castleford-St.Helens
Sun 23rd Feb
SL
14:30
Leigh-Huddersfield
Fri 28th Feb
SL
20:00
Huddersfield-Hull FC
SL
20:00
Hull KR-Salford
SL
20:00
Leigh-Catalans
Sat 1st Mar
SL
14:30
Wakefield-St.Helens
SL
21:30
Wigan-Warrington
Sun 2nd Mar
SL
15:00
Leeds-Castleford
Thu 6th Mar
SL
20:00
Hull FC-Leigh
Fri 7th Mar
SL
20:00
Castleford-Salford
This is an inplay table and live positions can change.
Mens Betfred Super League XXVIII ROUND : 1
 PLDFADIFFPTS
Wigan 29 768 338 430 48
Hull KR 29 731 344 387 44
Warrington 29 769 351 418 42
Leigh 29 580 442 138 33
Salford 28 556 561 -5 32
St.Helens 28 618 411 207 30
 
Catalans 27 475 427 48 30
Leeds 27 530 488 42 28
Huddersfield 27 468 658 -190 20
Castleford 27 425 735 -310 15
Hull FC 27 328 894 -566 6
LondonB 27 317 916 -599 6
This is an inplay table and live positions can change.
Betfred Championship 2024 ROUND : 1
 PLDFADIFFPTS
Wakefield 27 1032 275 757 52
Toulouse 26 765 388 377 37
Bradford 28 723 420 303 36
York 29 695 501 194 32
Widnes 27 561 502 59 29
Featherstone 27 634 525 109 28
 
Sheffield 26 626 526 100 28
Doncaster 26 498 619 -121 25
Halifax 26 509 650 -141 22
Batley 26 422 591 -169 22
Swinton 28 484 676 -192 20
Barrow 25 442 720 -278 19
Whitehaven 25 437 826 -389 18
Dewsbury 27 348 879 -531 4
Hunslet 1 6 10 -4 0
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