That is the most ridiculous justification of the lot. No one needs to learn how to get up and go to work.



An equally ridiculous assertion.



It is totally unsuitable for anyone. Shelf stacking at poundland benefits no one except poundland who get free labour. The idea the long term unemployed need to do this so they can learn to get up in the morning is beyond moronic.

Mencap are pulling out of the Work Programme.

I am shocked they were in it in the first place.

Charities like Mencap have been involved with placing disabled people into free labor for a very long time. It's just hard and universally unacceptable to criticize charities because they help the children.

rlhttp://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2013/02/17/iain-duncan-smith-hits-ou_n_2705512.htmlrl

[i"I am not going to give way on this. I absolutely clearly tell you this

Thats the sound of an angry man.

Unfortunately we don't want legislation based on anger for people who can't control their anger seldom make rational decisions, someone in his party needs to sit Mr Duncan-Smith down and explain that people like Ms Reilly don't "sign up for this" much less "get paid" JSA for working 20 to 30 hours per week in menial tasks, they should point out just how close his statement came to admitting that HM Government broke their own employment legislation if, as he thinks, Ms Reilly "got paid" for doing her shelf stacking task.

Is there anyone in his party who will explain the error of his ways ?

Probably not, depressingly there are too many in his party who think he hasn't gone far enough.

What is it about Chingford and the twaaats that represent that constituency?

DaveO - you are mistaken, I have worked with many many individuals who have been on the dole that long, they don't even see it as a "benefit." It's never crossed their mind that the job centre is about getting work, to them it's just a place they have to go every fortnight and say well drilled in lines so that they can get "paid." They have absolutely no concept of responsibility.

These are people who think that "oh well I was asleep" should be sufficient justification for missing an 11:30 appointment and then kick off that their benefits get sanctioned.

I don't judge them on this, they are a product of their environment and it's gutting to see so many like that, but I feel the welfare state has created much of the environment in the first place.

For these people, and as I say there are a LOT - I think that the whole experience of mixing with people outside their usual circles and dealing with the public for a few weeks, as well as getting in the habit of up, showered, dressed, work etc - is beneficial.

As someone tweeted earlier"I went to Uni so I could leave my job at Kwik Save, not so that I could go back and work there for benefits!"[/i

Yeah but it's not like their work shy, it doesn't even cross their mind that they are doing anything wrong, dole is just what you do.

But it does need tailoring, it's ridiculous to make that girl go on the programme, but I feel it could have a place for the people I describe.

What was their degree in - "The practical aspects of retail display" or something equally intellectual?

Are the likes of Tesco/Poundland etc "Pay Shy"

If they have a job pay someone to do it if not do not use the government as a press gang machine.

They already exploit the NI system for all it is worth by having people on 10/15 hour contracts so having to pay very little in NI contributions. Until NI starts being paid by the employer (perhaps with small employers exempt and kept on the current NI system) from the first penny earnt there is no incentive to employ people on proper wages for full time roles. With that and Tax Credits subserdising poor wages big business are basically taking the p**s much more than any dole cheat.

If workfare has to exist restrict it to small businesses, charities and voluntree organisations and certainly keep the big retailers well away from it.

Well said.