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Quote: El Barbudo "Which means what?
It doesn't tell us how good an employer they are, whether they are good for the economy or anything other than the fact that Wal- Mart are enormous.'"


It probably tells us more about the NHS than anything else.

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Quote: Richie "Would you rather deny the public the choice?'"


You think a huge store like Wal-Mart increases choice?

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Quote: Richie "Would you rather deny the public the choice?'"

Steady there fella, part of the Wal- Mart methodology is to remove choice ... I.e. undercut until the smaller opposition goes under and then revert to pricing as Wal- Mart sees fit.
This has been observed across the US.

Stagecoach did much the same in the UK to expand into new local bus service areas.

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Quote: Richie "It probably tells us more about the NHS than anything else.'"

You''ve lost me there.

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Quote: Big Graeme "You think a huge store like Wal-Mart increases choice?'"


In choosing to shop at Wal-Mart or not?

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Quote: El Barbudo "Steady there fella, part of the Wal- Mart methodology is to remove choice ... I.e. undercut until the smaller opposition goes under and then revert to pricing as Wal- Mart sees fit.
This has been observed across the US.

Stagecoach did much the same in the UK to expand into new local bus service areas.'"


Consumers can always choose not to shop there.

By the way, I have only been to the US three times (NYC twice, and a trip around Texas) and saw plenty of alternatives to Wal-Mart there.

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Quote: El Barbudo "You''ve lost me there.'"


All the businesses, armies, health care providers, and various forms of employer, across the whole world......You don't think it stands out that the British NHS, when counting all those, is the third largest employer?

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Quote: Richie "All the businesses, armies, health care providers, and various forms of employer, across the whole world......You don't think it stands out that the British NHS, when counting all those, is the third largest employer?'"

Either being a big employer is a good thing or a bad thing, you don't get it both ways icon_wink.gif

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Quote: Big Graeme "And if Wal-Mart wasn't around there would still be stores selling the same goods to the same people.

Wal-Mart and stores like them syphon money out of local areas where local businesses they have put out of business put money into the local area.'"


Absolutely.

Fishman was astonished to find that, where Wal-Mart opened a store, then jobs were hit and, within five years, poverty levels in that area had increased.

He also talks of the impact on quality – particularly citing a major brand of jeans (can't remember off the top of my head) where quality had been cut in order to reduce the price, as demanded by Wal-Mart.

Just to say (not directed at BG), Fishman is not anti-Wal-Mart or anti-capitalist. He clearly started the project with a massive admiration for the compnay and found himself increasingly disquieted by what he discovered. And would still love to be able to see it as part of the 'American Dream'.

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Quote: Richie "All the businesses, armies, health care providers, and various forms of employer, across the whole world......You don't think it stands out that the British NHS, when counting all those, is the third largest employer?'"

No, that fact , on its own, is not informative.
For it to be informative I would need to know how many people it treats, and how successfully, compared against other developed nations.

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Quote: Richie "Would you rather deny the public the choice?'"


We've been through this before.

When 'choice' is limited to what one store decides to sell, it is not the same as choice provided by a range of outlets selling a range of different products – say, for instance, bread.

Having, say, three different sizes of Tesco in a town is not greater choice than when people had a Tesco [iand[/i a range of small, independent shops (which is very similar to the situation experienced in my local area over a period of 30-40 years).

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The biggest issue in high street retailing is the cost of rent and business rates - some rationalisation is required. The idea that firms pay a quarter in advance on leases that have clauses saving reviews will be upwards only is plain inequitable.

The cost of business rates is also out of kilter with the services the local councils are delivering for the cost.

Until a reality hits landlords you will see more casualties - Dreams is hotly tipped to be next?

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Quote: Mintball "We've been through this before.

When 'choice' is limited to what one store decides to sell, it is not the same as choice provided by a range of outlets selling a range of different products – say, for instance, bread.

Having, say, three different sizes of Tesco in a town is not greater choice than when people had a Tesco [iand[/i a range of small, independent shops (which is very similar to the situation experienced in my local area over a period of 30-40 years).'"


If Wal Mart were only selling one type of bread I would agree but that is not the case in your local Asda you will be able to get 50 different types of bread from basic to exotic. In Bradford there is 4 Morrisons, 1 Tesco, 1 Asda, 1 Sainsbury, Lidl, Aldi how much more choice do you want? No one forces anyone to shop at these stores, Bradford has a fruit/meat and fish market it also has numerous independent butchers, bakers and fruit and veg retailers many of which you have to drive past to get to the hyper-markets.

One thing is for sure you will get a greater choice of products across all theses three areas in your supermarket than you will in your independent.

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Quote: Sal Paradise "The biggest issue in high street retailing is the cost of rent and business rates - some rationalisation is required. The idea that firms pay a quarter in advance on leases that have clauses saving reviews will be upwards only is plain inequitable.

The cost of business rates is also out of kilter with the services the local councils are delivering for the cost.

Until a reality hits landlords you will see more casualties - Dreams is hotly tipped to be next?'"


You're correct about the issue - what is needed is rent regulation.

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Quote: Sal Paradise "If Wal Mart were only selling one type of bread I would agree but that is not the case in your local Asda you will be able to get 50 different types of bread from basic to exotic. In Bradford there is 4 Morrisons, 1 Tesco, 1 Asda, 1 Sainsbury, Lidl, Aldi how much more choice do you want? No one forces anyone to shop at these stores, Bradford has a fruit/meat and fish market it also has numerous independent butchers, bakers and fruit and veg retailers many of which you have to drive past to get to the hyper-markets.

One thing is for sure you will get a greater choice of products across all theses three areas in your supermarket than you will in your independent.'"


If there is nothing other than supermarkets in a town (see 'Tesco Town, 'Tescopoly' and 'trolley town') then there is only the 'choice' that such a company allows. Residents have sod all realistic choice where to shop.

Bradford is a sizeable city. Many smaller places in he UK do not have such choices.

I recently interviewed my local butcher (you can find the result at the address listed below). He's been on the street for 50 years - the last survivor. No raving lefty - and guess what? It was the big expansion of supermarkets that killed off the independents. My street went from eight butchers, three fishmongers, three proper bakers etc to one butcher and one chain baker - and a shed load of dosing Tescos and Sainsbury's, neither of which provide even half-way decent real butchers and fishmongers, with the skills and knowledge those actually involve.

Incidentally, buying strawberries and asparagus in December is utterly bonkers, unsustainable and downright stupid. And people who think it's some sort of success are also stupid.

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