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Quote: Sal Paradise "You have and always have had a very distorted view on matters. Obama by his own admission couldn't get a policy through the congress/senate which was dominated by Republicans - he was scandal free mainly because of his own political impotence. The Iran deal should never have been in the format that it was but there you go. He repeatedly promised to get rid of Guantanamo its still there, his record on expelling illegals was extreme - made Donald look soft. The economy grew - difficult to avoid that given the state it was in when he took over - given his inability to get anything done it is difficult to correlate the two.'"
Of course Obama less effective after 2010 when his party lost the majority; that's the nature of partisan American politics as it stands and is where Trump is now. It's a massive straw man.

What the Obama administration did in the two years they had power though contrast quite brutally with Trump's first two years:

Passed the Recovery Act which stimulated the economy, saved General Motors amongst many others, prevented an all-out depression and laid the foundations for the strongest period of continuous economic growth in modern American history.
Passed the largest tax cuts for working Americans in history
Gave millions of poorer Americans the chance of healthcare with the Affordable Care Act, following which the number of Americans without health coverage fell by around 25 million people
Signed Dodd-Frank Wall Street reform to prevent a repeat of the circumstances that led to the Great Recession
The New START treaty cut nuclear weapons in Russia and the USA
Repealed Don't Ask, Don't Tell to remove the slander that only some Americans were patriotic or brave enough to serve in the military

In contrast Trump did a big tax cut for wealthy people and corporations, most of which disappeared as stock buy-backs. His biggest success is in not messing up the Obama Economy, which is something I suppose.

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Well Super Tuesday coming up this week ,with a third of overall pledged delegates up for grabs.

Probably shake the Democrat field down to three or four. icon_biggrin.gif

Biden will be lifted after gaining SC, but Sanders and Warren didn’t put much effort into it.

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Quote: Sal Paradise "
Time will tell - the sitting president seems to have an unfair advantage in the US only Bush snr in recent years hasn't managed to get re-elected.'"


Probably because when they don't get a primary challenge (which Bush snr did) they can spend this time fundraising and not spending, meanwhile the other side are burning up funds fighting their own primary.

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Quote: Superblue "Well Super Tuesday coming up this week ,with a third of overall pledged delegates up for grabs.

Probably shake the Democrat field down to three or four.
Steyer and Buttegieg gone, surely Klobuchar is going to drop out soon. The only one left with a chance is Warren, who may be able to attract supporters from both Bernie and Biden.

Bloomberg can stay in as a sideshow as long as he has money to burn on it.

Biden does have some natural advantages in terms of his natural base, but his problem is he is so poor in these debates. He is basically a poor man's Hilary.

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Interesting point raised on the latest fivethirtyeight podcast - if coronavirus spreads, what are the risks of one of the candidates getting it?

Because of their age, the health and fitness to be President will be a massive factor for either Biden or especially Bernie. Having coronavirus would ruin their campaign.

Also they will be out shaking loads of peoples hands, in large rallies.

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Let us not forget that Trump is also north of 70 even if his tan and hair? try to suggest otherwise.

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Quote: sally cinnamon "Steyer and Buttegieg gone, surely Klobuchar is going to drop out soon. The only one left with a chance is Warren, who may be able to attract supporters from both Bernie and Biden.

Bloomberg can stay in as a sideshow as long as he has money to burn on it.

Biden does have some natural advantages in terms of his natural base, but his problem is he is so poor in these debates. He is basically a poor man's Hilary.'"


Do you still think Bernie is going to be challenging Trump?

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No I think it's a near certainty that Biden has got the nomination now.

The others all dropping out and endorsing Biden before Super Tuesday made the difference.

I think this plays well into Trump's hands. Biden is the easiest opponent for him because he can use the same model that worked against Hilary:

- "Establishment swamp" - Biden has had the same establishment forces rallying behind him that Hilary had to ensure that he got the nomination. Neither really had a groundswell grass roots movement.

- "Corruption" - Hunter Biden will be the "Hilary's emails" of the campaign.

Hilary was at least a confident debater. Biden is a bumbler who will look weak in comparison to Trump. He also possesses some of Trump's unpleasant characteristics (arrogant, smug, sexist, rude) without going all out and owning it like Trump does.

However it's not in the bag for Trump because coronavirus and the likely economic impacts will remove Trump's ace in the pack about "booming economy" and also expose him as a weak leader, if it hits the US medical system hard and he is seen to be ineffective in dealing with it and instead using the crisis to just blame others. It's easy for people to rally behind Trump's attacks on others when people aren't experiencing the effects themselves, but coronavirus impacts are going to hit his base too.

Trump doesn't have a broad coalition of voters, his strategy is on holding his base firm and making sure the electoral college holds for him, so he's vulnerable to a small degradation of that base. Biden has a chance of beating him no matter how unimpressive he is, as just the "anyone but Trump" candidate.

One thing which will be decisive will be whether Bernie's supporters actively campaign for Biden (which will be hard for them to accept) or whether some just don't bother turning out and voting - I think this hit Hilary.

If Biden becomes President though, I expect him to be a very unimpressive President and an easy target for Republican media. The best thing he could do is see himself as a one term President and intend to hand over the reins to one of the younger ones next time. So the choice of running mate will be quite interesting.

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Quote: sally cinnamon "No I think it's a near certainty that Biden has got the nomination now.

The others all dropping out and endorsing Biden before Super Tuesday made the difference.

I think this plays well into Trump's hands. Biden is the easiest opponent for him because he can use the same model that worked against Hilary

I think your synopsis is spot on - Biden is unimpressive as a potential leader - I find it incredible that there aren't better candidates in the whole of the US. Trump should be an easy target - but then the Tories should have been a slam dunk for Labour - look what happened

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The problem I hope for Trump is that they have actually seen him at work, rather than purely based on what he says before an election.

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Trump expected to declare national emergency over coronavirus.

But I thought it was a liberal hoax? I thought the US were doing just great?

These tinpot leaders can lie all they want about jobs, the economoy, trade, and immigration, but when people start panicking, getting sick and dying from a virus, there's only so many porkies you can tell before your cover's very quickly blown.

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Quote: King Street Cat "Trump expected to declare national emergency over coronavirus.

But I thought it was a liberal hoax? I thought the US were doing just great?

These tinpot leaders can lie all they want about jobs, the economoy, trade, and immigration, but when people start panicking, getting sick and dying from a virus, there's only so many porkies you can tell before your cover's very quickly blown.'"


Boris is not everyone's cup of tea but his handling of Covid19 has been very good - he has got the tone just about right

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Boris' response has probably shown a big difference between him and Trump.

When Boris was London Mayor one of the things that got said about him was that he was by nature a delegator. He doesn't have the delusion that Trump does that he's an all-knowing genius. Hence his reliance on Dominic Cummings for general policy strategy.

With this crisis, Boris has at least recognised his limitations and brought experts with him to the press conferences. But like you say he has struck the right tone, he hasn't tried to be political or overly bombastic, and he has largely deferred to the experts without looking like he's shoving the blame on to them.

I think he's done OK, he's clearly uncomfortable in this kind of situation as he is more in his element doing the "pumping up the nations' spirits" talk rather than dealing with matters as serious as this, some of his phrasing has been a bit bumbling but overall I think he's been OK.

Trump on the other hand is a complete disaster, it is apparent that he doesn't know what he is doing and I'm sure this is making the panic worse especially on the stock markets.

Obama would have stood up to the plate and given leadership to the world, and Trump and the Republicans would have been sniping from the outside. They are like rabbits in the headlights when the responsibility is on them.

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Johnson isn’t my cup of tea, but I agree he’s done okay. It’s impossible to know what is the best course of action, and that’d apply to any leader, but the tone is serious enough without being too panicky, and the plan seems a reasonable best guess.

For now we’re all on the same side. Hopefully it’ll pass without too much pain and loss and we can get back to our gammon-snowflake mutual loathing soon!

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Hancock has gone up in my estimation - he has handled this really well. Whatever the government do it will not be right for all people. In Italy and Spain they have locked everything down doesn't seem to have slowed the infections/deaths any? We still have to be able to function the country simply cannot come to grinding halt surely?

As for the elderly the government is between a rock and a hard place - isolate them and they will suffer mentally and physically - do nothing and there is a potential for an increase in the death-rate?

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