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Quote: IR80 "How has Scotland been shabily treated?'"


They are shabbily treated all of the time.
Policies in Westminster are not made or changed for he benefit of Scotland and regardless of how many MP's the Scottish people vote in, they are powerless to change anything, which comes from having a population of 5,000,000 out of a total UK population of 70,000,000.
In many ways, they would have been better off voting Labour or Tory and at least then, their MP's could influence government policy.

Also, despite, as a nation, voting heavily in favour of remaining in the EU, as a nation, they will leave with the rest of the UK.

Of course, assuming that once independent they wanted to and could rejoin the EU, their MP's (or MEP's) would have little influence on EU policy as they would become a smaller cog in a much larger wheel but, I dont think that anyone can argue that they have no influence at Westminster and never will have.

If you were unhappy at home, you would be able to leave and it would be your choice.
Bizarrely, much like an angst ridden teenager, who isn't happy, they have to ask permission.

The "one nation" Tory rule seems like it is only concerned with one nation, England with the rest just having to toe the line.

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Quote: wrencat1873 "They are shabbily treated all of the time.
Policies in Westminster are not made or changed for he benefit of Scotland and regardless of how many MP's the Scottish people vote in, they are powerless to change anything, which comes from having a population of 5,000,000 out of a total UK population of 70,000,000.
In many ways, they would have been better off voting Labour or Tory and at least then, their MP's could influence government policy.

Also, despite, as a nation, voting heavily in favour of remaining in the EU, as a nation, they will leave with the rest of the UK.

Of course, assuming that once independent they wanted to and could rejoin the EU, their MP's (or MEP's) would have little influence on EU policy as they would become a smaller cog in a much larger wheel but, I dont think that anyone can argue that they have no influence at Westminster and never will have.

If you were unhappy at home, you would be able to leave and it would be your choice.
Bizarrely, much like an angst ridden teenager, who isn't happy, they have to ask permission.

The "one nation" Tory rule seems like it is only concerned with one nation, England with the rest just having to toe the line.'"

An interesting view, but remember the people of Scotland voted to stay in the Union, in yet another "once in a generation" vote.

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Quote: IR80 "An interesting view, but remember the people of Scotland voted to stay in the Union, in yet another "once in a generation" vote.'"


Yes they did, just as they were told by a previous Tory leader that, we "would not be leaving the EU"
How many people voted to remain as part of the Union based on Cameron's guarantee or, should the people of Scotland thought "lying tort T***" and assumed that he was lying - maybe that was the start of the new Tory style

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Quote: wrencat1873 "Yes they did, just as they were told by a previous Tory leader that, we "would not be leaving the EU"
How many people voted to remain as part of the Union based on Cameron's guarantee or, should the people of Scotland thought "lying tort T***" and assumed that he was lying - maybe that was the start of the new Tory style'"

Cameron got it wrong, no denying that. We should have voted, as the UK, to remain, but we didn't.

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Quote: wrencat1873 "I dont think that any of your "demands" will be a problem, in fact, I'm sure that they would be delighted with them.
However, once again, England supplies more products and services into Scotland than they supply to us. Therefore, despite their apparent weak position, you may need to think properly about this.
Interestingly, you appear aggressive to the Scots wanting to leave the UK and yet IIRC, you were pretty upset when the EU got the hump with us wanting to leave their Union - hilarious

Personally, I dont see how Scotland would manage as an independent nation but, equally, despite nearly all of their MP's being from the SNP, they actually have no power in the UK Parliament whatsoever and as a nation have been ignored and shabbily treated by Westminster over very many years, leading to the rise in the SNP's popularity.

It's sure to get interesting and can you imagine if the UK were hit with tariffs and at some point in the future, the Scots and N. Irish were not.

As I say, it's interesting to see that some who were in favour of Brexit, don't believe that Scotland should be "allowed" to go it alone.
Especially Mr Johnson
As has been pointed out before - you are either in favour of democracy or not - you can't be democratic and only support democracy when you win. Why should 5m hold sway over the other 65m its not how it works. Why should 48 MPs have any power against 600 MPs - it reflects the population mix too c7%. its odd that they are even in the UK parliament given they have their own assembly?

I appreciate for you lefties - you know what's best for everyone - and anyone who has a different view is simply stupid but that's dictatorship not democracy. No doubt you think Corbyn won the argument and how could these thick northerners not see it!!

I have no issue with Scotland leaving - As you quote says - I would let them have the vote. What was must avoid is the misunderstanding that "people didn't know what they were voting for". It is certain that Queen Nicola will only push the perceived positives of leaving the union.

On a positive Labour will never get into power again without the help of the big number of MPs from Scotland. Plus the weeble will wobble back off to Skye icon_biggrin.gif

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Fans Forum 28.08.08 Fan from Haydock "I've got one word for you Mr Chairman - Penalty Count" [quote="The Daddy"]I've got one word for you all......Steve Hanley[/quote] Some Salford fan said to me and I quote "You are by far and away the most Handsome & Knowledgeable Rugby League Fan in England!" I thanked him and went on my Merry way! RIVERCAVE DWELLER OF THE YEAR 2015! "The club used you last night and didn't tell the truth." Officially one of the 119 Mugs used by the club:icons077e_files/5454-3678dentheman-msnicons.jpg



Quote: Sal Paradise "As has been pointed out before - you are either in favour of democracy or not - you can't be democratic and only support democracy when you win. Why should 5m hold sway over the other 65m its not how it works. Why should 48 MPs have any power against 600 MPs - it reflects the population mix too c7%. its odd that they are even in the UK parliament given they have their own assembly?

I appreciate for you lefties - you know what's best for everyone - and anyone who has a different view is simply stupid but that's dictatorship not democracy. No doubt you think Corbyn won the argument and how could these thick northerners not see it!!

I have no issue with Scotland leaving - As you quote says - I would let them have the vote. What was must avoid is the misunderstanding that "people didn't know what they were voting for". It is certain that Queen Nicola will only push the perceived positives of leaving the union.

On a positive Labour will never get into power again without the help of the big number of MPs from Scotland. Plus the weeble will wobble back off to Skye
Oh the irony!

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Your job is to say to yourself on a job interview does the hiring manager likes me or not. If you aren't a particular manager's cup of tea, you haven't failed -- you've dodged a bullet.:icons077e_files/5454-3678dentheman-msnicons.jpg



Quote: Jukesays "Oh the irony!'"


Nobody said leaving the EU would not be without challenges - it remains to be seen whether theses challenges are insurmountable icon_biggrin.gif I'm sure you have your fingers crossed icon_biggrin.gif

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[color=#000000:ogl9gbum]"Back home we got a taxidermy man. He gonna have a heart attack when he see what I brung him."[/color:ogl9gbum]:d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_50733.jpg



Quote: Sal Paradise "Nobody said leaving the EU would not be without challenges'"


As it's panto season. Oh yes they did.

Gerard Batten: "A trade deal with the EU could be sorted out in an afternoon over a cup of coffee"

David Davis: “there will be no downside to Brexit, only a considerable upside”

Liam Fox: "The free trade agreement that we will have to do with the European Union should be one of the easiest in human history"

Michael Gove: “The day after we vote to leave, we hold all the cards and we can choose the path we want”

Boris Johnson: "There is no plan for no deal because we are going to get a great deal"

John Redwood: "Getting out of the EU can be quick and easy – the UK holds most of the cards in any negotiation"

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'Thus I am tormented by my curiosity and humbled by my ignorance.' from History of an Old Bramin, The New York Mirror (A Weekly Journal Devoted to Literature and the Fine Arts), February 16th 1833.:d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_33809.png

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Quote: King Street Cat "As it's panto season. Oh yes they did.

Gerard Batten

Very good.

Sal’s triple negative adds a confusing wrinkle, tbf.

Expectations have been managed since the referendum and the dire warnings from the Brexit sceptics have lowered them further. For a lot of us, anything better than very bad will be a win/relief. However, I think there are sections of the electorate still anticipating a Brexit dividend.

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Quote: King Street Cat "As it's panto season. Oh yes they did.

Gerard Batten

Redwood and Gove were correct it could have been had it not been for the remain side putting up every barrier to stop it. Nobody actually knows how things will pan out if/when we leave with no deal - its never been done before and we all know how accurate economic forecasting is!!

The referendum was lost on two areas: immigration and who writes our laws. The EU are now in a tricky spot - they can play two ends off against the middle as they could before. We are in for an interesting 2020.

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Your job is to say to yourself on a job interview does the hiring manager likes me or not. If you aren't a particular manager's cup of tea, you haven't failed -- you've dodged a bullet.:icons077e_files/5454-3678dentheman-msnicons.jpg



Quote: Mild Rover "Very good.

Sal’s triple negative adds a confusing wrinkle, tbf.

Expectations have been managed since the referendum and the dire warnings from the Brexit sceptics have lowered them further. For a lot of us, anything better than very bad will be a win/relief. However, I think there are sections of the electorate still anticipating a Brexit dividend.'"


I don't think there is anyone out there expecting a boost from leaving - what people are expecting is a country that can control its laws and its borders - simple as.

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Quote: Jukesays "Oh the irony!'"


At least with Brexit you had two sides spinning lies - who in Scotland is going to campaign to stay in the union - there will be no counter-voice to Queen Nicola.

It was just the same for Labour and Brexit - who in Labour was going to campaign for leave?

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[color=#000000:ogl9gbum]"Back home we got a taxidermy man. He gonna have a heart attack when he see what I brung him."[/color:ogl9gbum]:d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_50733.jpg



Quote: Sal Paradise "I don't think there is anyone out there expecting a boost from leaving - what people are expecting is a country that can control its laws and its borders - simple asa.'"


I've read plenty of pieces and comments, from people on both sides of the political divide, who believe that immigration from Eastern Europe is driving down wages, and leaving the EU will give a boost to British worker's wages.

Don't forget the 'cheaper food, clothing and footwear' comment from Jacob Rees-Mogg either. Although anyone expecting to suddenly be able to afford a pair of John Lobbs, a Brioni suit and Beluga caviar is going to mightily disappointed.

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Fans Forum 28.08.08 Fan from Haydock "I've got one word for you Mr Chairman - Penalty Count" [quote="The Daddy"]I've got one word for you all......Steve Hanley[/quote] Some Salford fan said to me and I quote "You are by far and away the most Handsome & Knowledgeable Rugby League Fan in England!" I thanked him and went on my Merry way! RIVERCAVE DWELLER OF THE YEAR 2015! "The club used you last night and didn't tell the truth." Officially one of the 119 Mugs used by the club:icons077e_files/5454-3678dentheman-msnicons.jpg



Quote: Sal Paradise "Redwood and Gove were correct it could have been had it not been for the remain side putting up every barrier to stop it. Nobody actually knows how things will pan out if/when we leave with no deal - its never been done before and we all know how accurate economic forecasting is!!

The referendum was lost on two areas

Can someone Remind me again what the ERG et al did to PM May when she came back with one of her early "Easy" Deals?
Did they vote with her?

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Quote: King Street Cat "I'Although anyone expecting to suddenly be able to afford a pair of John Lobbs, a Brioni suit and Beluga caviar is going to mightily disappointed.'"

You are talking high end, saught after brands, not day to day purchases.

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