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It's not lying if what you say would be true if the facts were different.:



I've long held the opinion that IDS regards the Victorian era described in A Christmas Carol and other Dicken's work as a blueprint for how he would like society to be.
The DWP is the ideal vehicle for him to achieve this dream

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Quote: cod'ead "And then what?'"


That's it, 2 years then it stops.

Got that data from the London Evening Standard you said you had?

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[url=http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-league/14252202:io879g1y]2005 Challenge Cup[/url:io879g1y] To reconcile respect with practicality, what is the optimum speed for a hearse?:d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_7384.png



Quote: JerryChicken "mentioning that there are "millions" who are stuck in a lifestyle of claiming benefits rather than working because the previous government made it more financially viable to claim benefits rather than work.'"

Strange. I seem to recall being taught about "the poverty trap" in economics in the 1980's. The trap being that working can mean you are worse off, as you pay tax and NI etc on earnings, so people chose to stay on benefits. We'd had 5 years of Thatcher then, and I doubt it was a new concept anyway.

Its just disappointing that the masses swallow this claptrap from politicians without questioning it, or thinking for themselves.

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The older I get, the better I was Advice is what we seek when we already know the answer - but wish we didn't I'd rather have a full bottle in front of me than a full-frontal lobotomy ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ kirkstaller wrote: "All DNA shows is that we have a common creator." cod'ead wrote: "I have just snotted weissbier all over my keyboard & screen" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ "No amount of cajolery, and no attempts at ethical or social seduction, can eradicate from my heart a deep burning hatred for the Tory Party. So far as I am concerned they are lower than vermin." - Aneurin Bevan:2051.jpg



Quote: BobbyD "That's it, 2 years then it stops.

Got that data from the London Evening Standard you said you had?'"


So what do claimants live on?

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Quote: Hull White Star "And when they do exactly that, they then get their benefits sanctioned for not attending the JCP or taking time off from the Work Fare Programme. I was only reading the other day that a man had a job interview at the same time as his JCP appointment, he asked them if he could re-arrange, which they agreed, only to have his benefit sanctioned for a month for not turning up for his JCP appointment! IDS is a disgrace, he calls himself a Christian, this man wouldn't know how to behave like a Christian (or just a normal, decent, caring bloke) if it hit him in the face with a wet haddock.'"


Oh Christ, he doesn't have to care, he's part of a team running the country. They set out an agenda, and people either vote for it or not. At the last election the 3 main parties promised massive spending cuts, NHS privatisation and benefit reform among other things. Millions of people voted for these policies. If you weren't one of those, my commiserations but you took a stand. The problem is, with Rachel Reeves promising to be even tougher than the Tories the Conservatives are who you have to vote for otherwise these sanctions will be even more commonplace as Labour will surely get elected, then you'll be praying for the return of the "disgrace" that is IDS.

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Quote: cod'ead "So what do claimants live on?'"


Frozen pizza, it seems to be the national dish judging by the chest freezers in supermarkets.

If you give me the link to your Twitter feed I should be able to find the figures you quoted if you're too busy, we wouldn't want people thinking you're just making stuff up.

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Someday everything is gonna be different, when I paint my masterpiece ---------------------------------------------------------- [url=http://garykitchen.co.uk/:lnkxkae0]Online art gallery, selling original landscape artwork[/url:lnkxkae0] ---------------------------------------------------------- [url=http://jerrychicken.wordpress.com/:lnkxkae0]JerryChicken - The Blog[/url:lnkxkae0] ----------------------------------------------------------:d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_67953.jpg



Quote: Chris28 "Strange. I seem to recall being taught about "the poverty trap" in economics in the 1980's. The trap being that working can mean you are worse off, as you pay tax and NI etc on earnings, so people chose to stay on benefits. We'd had 5 years of Thatcher then, and I doubt it was a new concept anyway.

Its just disappointing that the masses swallow this claptrap from politicians without questioning it, or thinking for themselves.'"


Absolutely its always been an issue and the theory of working tax credit is a good one in handing back taxation to low paid to encourage them to work rather than just drawing benefits. In practice it can be abused by employee and employer alike, it can subsidise low pay for employers, it can encourage employers to advertise two 20 hour posts rather than one 40 hour full time post because its cheaper for them, its also commonplace in (for instance) the hotel industry (where my wife works) to have employees state that they must have more than 16 hours a week but definitely no more than "xxx" being the figure at which their tax credits drop - still doesn't make the theory of WTC a bad one though and as we've seen recently provides some good PR when the employment figures are released.

What is claptrap is statements based on the total benefits numbers which include in-work benefits (but they don't tell you that) and which are designed to outrage the party supporters into believing that there is a whole generation (or three generations, another Tory Party lie) consisting of "millions" (IDS's figure) of benefits claimants that have yet to be dealt with and thus justifying more and more stringent headline grabbing measures so that we are supposed to approve and applaud the fact that the terminally ill are being recommended for sanctions and return to work, sadly those sort of headlines work.

And sadly those headlines work because no-one ever questions them and sadly this must be pinned on the door of the Labour Party for every time IDS and his department of lies issue another statement like the one he has offered exclusively to the Daily Mail (I wonder why) today then the Labour Party should be demanding a breakdown or justification for the numbers that he uses and exposing those lies time and again until he learns to stop.

They aren't doing it though, but they will have to start soon.

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The older I get, the better I was Advice is what we seek when we already know the answer - but wish we didn't I'd rather have a full bottle in front of me than a full-frontal lobotomy ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ kirkstaller wrote: "All DNA shows is that we have a common creator." cod'ead wrote: "I have just snotted weissbier all over my keyboard & screen" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ "No amount of cajolery, and no attempts at ethical or social seduction, can eradicate from my heart a deep burning hatred for the Tory Party. So far as I am concerned they are lower than vermin." - Aneurin Bevan:2051.jpg



Quote: BobbyD "Frozen pizza, it seems to be the national dish judging by the chest freezers in supermarkets.

If you give me the link to your Twitter feed I should be able to find the figures you quoted if you're too busy, we wouldn't want people thinking you're just making stuff up.'"


SO they steal the frozen pizzas because they haven't got the money to buy them, how and where do they cook them because they will presumably have been evicted for non-payment or rent.

If we adopted the Norwegian model (considering that their unemplyment rate is 3.3%), would you also be happy paying Norwegian rates of tax and NI?

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A dog is the only thing on earth that loves you more than he loves himself. When you rescue a dog, you gain a heart for life. Handle every situation like a dog. If you can't Eat it or Chew it. Pee on it and Walk Away. "No amount of cajolery, and no attempts at ethical or social seduction, can eradicate from my heart a deep burning hatred for the Tory Party. So far as I am concerned they are lower than vermin. " Anuerin Bevan:d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_19170.jpg



Quote: BobbyD "Oh Christ, he doesn't have to care, he's part of a team running the country. They set out an agenda, and people either vote for it or not. At the last election the 3 main parties promised massive spending cuts, NHS privatisation and benefit reform among other things. Millions of people voted for these policies. If you weren't one of those, my commiserations but you took a stand. The problem is, with Rachel Reeves promising to be even tougher than the Tories the Conservatives are who you have to vote for otherwise these sanctions will be even more commonplace as Labour will surely get elected, then you'll be praying for the return of the "disgrace" that is IDS.'"


But nobody voted outright for him did they? I saw what Labour were doing to the old Incapacity Benefit through Atos. It was fair and asked non leading or yes/no questions. This joke of a government got hold of it and turned it into a farce. It wasn't Labour that came out and said they wanted to slash DLA by 20% (as Maria Miller admitted).

Believe me, I will never, ever pray for the return of the absolutely disgraceful Iain Disregards Statistics as long as I have a hole in me bum.

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Quote: cod'ead "SO they steal the frozen pizzas because they haven't got the money to buy them, how and where do they cook them because they will presumably have been evicted for non-payment or rent.'"
I've no idea how they obtain them, perhaps the first thing you should look up, sorry, second thing after the LES unemployment article you posted on what I can only imagine is the worlds longest Twitter feed, is how many people stay unemployed for longer than the 2 years.
Quote: cod'ead "If we adopted the Norwegian model (considering that their unemplyment rate is 3.3%), would you also be happy paying Norwegian rates of tax and NI?'"
Oh God no, I've lived there. 36% starting rate of income tax, 2 rates of VAT that make ours seem generous, which means it's cheaper to get on a ferry to Sweden to buy meat, not booze or fags, meat. It's the side people don't hear about when they demand our country be more like those wonderful Scandinavians because they read how great it is in the Observer Travel Guide or whatever it's called.

Now, back to those employment figures you [delmade up[/del are having trouble locating.

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Quote: Hull White Star "But nobody voted outright for him did they?'"
His constituents did.
Quote: Hull White Star "I saw what Labour were doing to the old Incapacity Benefit through Atos. It was fair and asked non leading or yes/no questions. This joke of a government got hold of it and turned it into a farce. It wasn't Labour that came out and said they wanted to slash DLA by 20% (as Maria Miller admitted). '"

Yes, unscrupulously fair, just as this nurse, who quit in 2009 says. Oh, sorry, wrong article, still it makes good reading.
Then when you get Reeves, and more people suffer as she's promised, your whining will fall on deaf ears.

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A dog is the only thing on earth that loves you more than he loves himself. When you rescue a dog, you gain a heart for life. Handle every situation like a dog. If you can't Eat it or Chew it. Pee on it and Walk Away. "No amount of cajolery, and no attempts at ethical or social seduction, can eradicate from my heart a deep burning hatred for the Tory Party. So far as I am concerned they are lower than vermin. " Anuerin Bevan:d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_19170.jpg



Quote: BobbyD "His constituents did.
Yes, unscrupulously fair, just as this nurse, who quit in 2009 says. Oh, sorry, wrong article, still it makes good reading.

I don't have to whine, I have my benefit thank you very muchly and an acknowledgement from this government that I am what I say I am. How many flights of stairs did you put down on your ESA50 pre 2008 and did you say you could or could not step up two steps on the same question post 2010? How much pain did you say you were in on your ESA50 pre 2008 in the half a page box asking you to explain and which box did you tick to say if you could hold a pen in your ESA50 post 2010.

Labour was trialling Atos, this government went full steam ahead, changed the questions, disregards specialist opinion and calls people liars.

{why do I have a sense of deja vu here??}

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Someday everything is gonna be different, when I paint my masterpiece ---------------------------------------------------------- [url=http://garykitchen.co.uk/:lnkxkae0]Online art gallery, selling original landscape artwork[/url:lnkxkae0] ---------------------------------------------------------- [url=http://jerrychicken.wordpress.com/:lnkxkae0]JerryChicken - The Blog[/url:lnkxkae0] ----------------------------------------------------------:d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_67953.jpg



Quote: BobbyD "
Yes, unscrupulously fair, just as this nurse, who quit in 2009 says. Oh, sorry, wrong article, still it makes good reading.

One memorable quote from that article...

Quote: BobbyD "Last week, a Panorama documentary revealed that each week between January and August last year, 32 people died who the Government had declared could be helped back into work.'"


Each week for eight months, 32 people died who had been removed from the benefits system.

Given that even my old mate who died in a hospice at the age of 52 from an inoperable brain tumour could still press the morphine button as long as someone had placed it in his hand that morning, then that one criteria would class him as being fit to work according to the ATOS spokesperson who in turn insists that they are just following government instructions.

That makes me sick.

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Quote: Hull White Star "I don't have to whine, I have my benefit thank you very muchly and an acknowledgement from this government that I am what I say I am. How many flights of stairs did you put down on your ESA50 pre 2008 and did you say you could or could not step up two steps on the same question post 2010? How much pain did you say you were in on your ESA50 pre 2008 in the half a page box asking you to explain and which box did you tick to say if you could hold a pen in your ESA50 post 2010.

Labour was trialling Atos, this government went full steam ahead, changed the questions, disregards specialist opinion and calls people liars.

{why do I have a sense of deja vu here??}'"


Labour voter by perchance!

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A dog is the only thing on earth that loves you more than he loves himself. When you rescue a dog, you gain a heart for life. Handle every situation like a dog. If you can't Eat it or Chew it. Pee on it and Walk Away. "No amount of cajolery, and no attempts at ethical or social seduction, can eradicate from my heart a deep burning hatred for the Tory Party. So far as I am concerned they are lower than vermin. " Anuerin Bevan:d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_19170.jpg



Quote: BobbyD "Labour voter by perchance!'"


Just read the comments from the article that JC posted this morning from the DM. It seems that some staunch Tories are even sickened by this man and what he is doing. When you have commentators from the Mail bemoaning IDS and his ideology, tells me everything I need to know.

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 Sat 3rd May 2025
     Mens Super League XXX-R9
15:00
Leigh
v
Catalans
17:15
Hull KR
v
Salford
19:30
St.Helens
v
Leeds
 Sun 4th May 2025
     Mens Super League XXX-R9
13:00
Huddersfield
v
Hull FC
15:15
Wigan
v
Warrington
17:30
Castleford
v
Wakefield
 Thu 15th May 2025
     Mens Super League XXX-R10
20:00
St.Helens
v
Catalans
 Fri 16th May 2025
     Mens Super League XXX-R10
20:00
Leeds
v
Hull FC
20:00
Wigan
v
Leigh
 Sat 17th May 2025
     Mens Super League XXX-R10
15:00
Hull KR
v
Huddersfield
 Sun 18th May 2025
     Mens Super League XXX-R10
15:00
Wakefield
v
Warrington
17:30
Castleford
v
Salford
 Thu 22nd May 2025
     Mens Super League XXX-R11
20:00
Leigh
v
Hull FC
 Fri 23rd May 2025
     Mens Super League XXX-R11
20:00
Huddersfield
v
St.Helens
20:00
Warrington
v
Hull KR
 Sat 24th May 2025
     Mens Super League XXX-R11
14:30
Castleford
v
Leeds
17:30
Catalans
v
Wigan
 Sun 25th May 2025
     Mens Super League XXX-R11
15:00
Wakefield
v
Salford
 Thu 29th May 2025
     Mens Super League XXX-R12
20:00
Huddersfield
v
Leigh
 Fri 30th May 2025
     Mens Super League XXX-R12
20:00
Hull KR
v
St.Helens
20:00
Salford
v
Wigan
 Sat 31st May 2025
     Mens Super League XXX-R12
14:30
Leeds
v
Wakefield
17:30
Catalans
v
Hull FC
 Sun 1st Jun 2025
     Mens Super League XXX-R12
15:00
Warrington
v
Castleford
ALL SCORES PROVIDED BY RLFANS.COM (SETTINGS)
Matches on TV
Thu 13th Feb
SL
20:00
Wigan-Leigh
Fri 14th Feb
SL
20:00
Hull KR-Castleford
SL
20:00
Catalans-Hull FC
Sat 15th Feb
SL
15:00
Leeds-Wakefield
SL
17:30
St.Helens-Salford
Sun 16th Feb
SL
15:00
Huddersfield-Warrington
Thu 20th Feb
SL
20:00
Wakefield-Hull KR
Fri 21st Feb
SL
20:00
Warrington-Catalans
SL
20:00
Hull FC-Wigan
Sat 22nd Feb
SL
15:00
Salford-Leeds
SL
20:00
Castleford-St.Helens
Sun 23rd Feb
SL
14:30
Leigh-Huddersfield
Thu 6th Mar
SL
20:00
Hull FC-Leigh
Fri 7th Mar
SL
20:00
Castleford-Salford
SL
20:00
St.Helens-Hull KR
Sat 8th Mar
SL
17:30
Catalans-Leeds
Sun 9th Mar
SL
17:30
Warrington-Wakefield
SL
17:30
Wigan-Huddersfield
Thu 20th Mar
SL
20:00
Salford-Huddersfield
Fri 21st Mar
SL
20:00
St.Helens-Warrington
This is an inplay table and live positions can change.
Mens Betfred Super League XXVIII ROUND : 1
 PLDFADIFFPTS
Wigan 29 768 338 430 48
Hull KR 29 731 344 387 44
Warrington 29 769 351 418 42
Leigh 29 580 442 138 33
Salford 28 556 561 -5 32
St.Helens 28 618 411 207 30
 
Catalans 27 475 427 48 30
Leeds 27 530 488 42 28
Huddersfield 27 468 658 -190 20
Castleford 27 425 735 -310 15
Hull FC 27 328 894 -566 6
LondonB 27 317 916 -599 6
This is an inplay table and live positions can change.
Betfred Championship 2024 ROUND : 1
 PLDFADIFFPTS
Wakefield 27 1032 275 757 52
Toulouse 26 765 388 377 37
Bradford 28 723 420 303 36
York 29 695 501 194 32
Widnes 27 561 502 59 29
Featherstone 27 634 525 109 28
 
Sheffield 26 626 526 100 28
Doncaster 26 498 619 -121 25
Halifax 26 509 650 -141 22
Batley 26 422 591 -169 22
Swinton 28 484 676 -192 20
Barrow 25 442 720 -278 19
Whitehaven 25 437 826 -389 18
Dewsbury 27 348 879 -531 4
Hunslet 1 6 10 -4 0
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