| FORUMS > The Sin Bin > Man of the People |
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[color=#000000:ogl9gbum]"Back home we got a taxidermy man. He gonna have a heart attack when he see what I brung him."[/color:ogl9gbum]:d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_50733.jpg |
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| Quote: IR80 "One where survival of the fittest prevails, the best person for a job doing the job, pretty much as things are now.'"
Somewhere between Running Man and Rococop? |
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| Quote: King Street Cat "Somewhere between Running Man and Rococop?'"
Nope, but we don't live in a society anything like that. |
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[color=#000000:ogl9gbum]"Back home we got a taxidermy man. He gonna have a heart attack when he see what I brung him."[/color:ogl9gbum]:d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_50733.jpg |
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| Quote: IR80 "Nope, but we don't live in a society anything like that.'"
It's only a matter of time... |
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'Thus I am tormented by my curiosity and humbled by my ignorance.' from History of an Old Bramin, The New York Mirror (A Weekly Journal Devoted to Literature and the Fine Arts), February 16th 1833.:d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_33809.png |
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| Quote: IR80 "One where survival of the fittest prevails, the best person for a job doing the job, pretty much as things are now.'"
I never had you down as such a Panglossian optimist. |
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| Quote: Mild Rover "I never had you down as such a Panglossian optimist.'"
I am far from Naive, and if I thought for one second you had ever read any Voltaire I would be amazed. |
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'Thus I am tormented by my curiosity and humbled by my ignorance.' from History of an Old Bramin, The New York Mirror (A Weekly Journal Devoted to Literature and the Fine Arts), February 16th 1833.:d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_33809.png |
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| Quote: IR80 "I am far from Naive, and if I thought for one second you had ever read any Voltaire I would be amazed.'"
I’ve read Candide. Slim volume, and a lightness of tone easy for my tiny mind to process.
You read it? |
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| Quote: Mild Rover "I’ve read Candide. Slim volume, and a lightness of tone easy for my tiny mind to process.
You read it?'"
Yes, a while ago now. I also tried Chaucer at roughly the same time, very difficult to read. I don't read anywhere near as much as I used to, but I don't travel as much nowadays.
I don't share your view that AI is the future, ultimately AI (in its current form) is simply an extension of the individual(s) that program it. |
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'Thus I am tormented by my curiosity and humbled by my ignorance.' from History of an Old Bramin, The New York Mirror (A Weekly Journal Devoted to Literature and the Fine Arts), February 16th 1833.:d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_33809.png |
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| Quote: IR80 "Yes, a while ago now. I also tried Chaucer at roughly the same time, very difficult to read. I don't read anywhere near as much as I used to, but I don't travel as much nowadays.
I don't share your view that AI is the future, ultimately AI (in its current form) is simply an extension of the individual(s) that program it.'"
We’re a way off sentient AI, I agree.
But machine learning means we’re beyond stuff just being programmed by people.
People often think first about the impact of driverless vehicles, and the impact that’ll have on people who drive for a living, for example. But a fair proportion of share trading is done by algorithms now. Their use as virtual assistants is widespread and they decide what videos YouTube recommends for you. One day in the not too distant they might be prescribing you medicines or providing adaptive, interactive tuition. They’re moving from processing data to interpreting and summarising it, which is the main part of my work. |
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| Quote: Mild Rover "We’re a way off sentient AI, I agree.
But machine learning means we’re beyond stuff just being programmed by people.
People often think first about the impact of driverless vehicles, and the impact that’ll have on people who drive for a living, for example. But a fair proportion of share trading is done by algorithms now. Their use as virtual assistants is widespread and they decide what videos YouTube recommends for you. One day in the not too distant they might be prescribing you medicines or providing adaptive, interactive tuition. They’re moving from processing data to interpreting and summarising it, which is the main part of my work.'"
But they must be interpreting/summarising based on something programmed? |
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'Thus I am tormented by my curiosity and humbled by my ignorance.' from History of an Old Bramin, The New York Mirror (A Weekly Journal Devoted to Literature and the Fine Arts), February 16th 1833.:d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_33809.png |
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| Quote: IR80 "But they must be interpreting/summarising based on something programmed?'"
So, my very, very basic lay person understanding is that machine learning doesn’t require programming, but instead a training set.
So when we were asked to prove we were not a bot when accessing a website, by selecting all the squares containing a road sign, we were helping to create a training set for a self-driving car. Presumably there are now algorithms that can recognise road signs, thanks to our efforts, so that security feature for weeding out bots has become redundant.
The training sets are used to test automatically generated, pretty much random algorithms. Millions of them. And most of them are rubbish. But if you pick the best 1%... well, they’ll still be rubbish. But if you use them as the basis to generate millions more and pick the best 1% of them, survival of the fittest style, and so on, and so on... you get there.
So I guess the human input is in creating the environment and providing the nutrients (the training set), but the algorithm evolves more than being programmed. For the latest game machine learning for Chess and Go, I think the machine created its own training set. Rather than being fed loads of games from top human players, and learning to mimic them super efficiently, it started from scratch playing against itself. |
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[color=#000000:ogl9gbum]"Back home we got a taxidermy man. He gonna have a heart attack when he see what I brung him."[/color:ogl9gbum]:d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_50733.jpg |
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The evolution of predictive text is an example of how machine learning has developed under our own eyes, without us really noticing how powerful, and accurate, it has become.
When it first started, it could pretty much complete a word, but it had to almost see a majority of the letters typed to offer up what it thought you were typing. It was often wrong, but got better as the technology improved.
It then developed into predicting what the next word would be, based on how a simple sentence is structured. Then a more complex sentence based on the previous words used in the sentence.
Then it became more personalised to the user, by building a dictionary of commonly typed words to suggest.
Then there was the feature that learnt from the user's writing style, by analysing texts and emails.
I've had the same Android phone for the last six years. It's scanned multiple emails and texts, and has built up a dictionary so personal, it knows pretty much every word I use. All my nuances, slang, swear words, brand names, beer styles, rugby teams, places. When I start a text to certain people, it pretty much knows the tone of the text by multiple words in advance, and can almost complete the sentences for me.
I haven't programmed it in the traditional sense of programming. It's just learnt from repetition over a period of time.
This is an interesting read regarding the future of predictive text.
https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2019 ... new-yorker |
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The evolution of predictive text is an example of how machine learning has developed under our own eyes, without us really noticing how powerful, and accurate, it has become.
When it first started, it could pretty much complete a word, but it had to almost see a majority of the letters typed to offer up what it thought you were typing. It was often wrong, but got better as the technology improved.
It then developed into predicting what the next word would be, based on how a simple sentence is structured. Then a more complex sentence based on the previous words used in the sentence.
Then it became more personalised to the user, by building a dictionary of commonly typed words to suggest.
Then there was the feature that learnt from the user's writing style, by analysing texts and emails.
I've had the same Android phone for the last six years. It's scanned multiple emails and texts, and has built up a dictionary so personal, it knows pretty much every word I use. All my nuances, slang, swear words, brand names, beer styles, rugby teams, places. When I start a text to certain people, it pretty much knows the tone of the text by multiple words in advance, and can almost complete the sentences for me.
I haven't programmed it in the traditional sense of programming. It's just learnt from repetition over a period of time.
This is an interesting read regarding the future of predictive text.
https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2019 ... new-yorker | |
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| Rank | Posts | Team |
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| Quote: Mild Rover "I'm thinking of something like the Minds in the Culture series of novels.
I read those books and it struck me that if the development of AI was in the hands of benevolent actors, that is more than likely what they would aim for; it was refreshing to explore a utopian future, rather than the dystopia that is often the default of sci-fi writers. Cory Doctorow has also written some interesting stuff around post-scarcity anarchy, and the future of society and how it interacts with technology.
To the question - I would happily live as a Culture citizen:
"The Culture's economy is maintained automatically by its non-sentient machines, with high-level work entrusted to the Minds' subroutines, which allows its humanoid and drone citizens to indulge their passions, romances, hobbies, or other activities, without servitude. Biologically, the Culture's citizens have been genetically enhanced to live for centuries, and have modified mental control over their physiology, including the ability to introduce a variety of psychoactive drugs into their systems, change biological sex, or switch off pain at will. Culture technology is able to transform individuals into vastly different body forms, although the Culture standard form remains fairly close to human."
Works for me.
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| Quote: bren2k "I read those books and it struck me that if the development of AI was in the hands of benevolent actors, that is more than likely what they would aim for; it was refreshing to explore a utopian future, rather than the dystopia that is often the default of sci-fi writers. Cory Doctorow has also written some interesting stuff around post-scarcity anarchy, and the future of society and how it interacts with technology.
To the question - I would happily live as a Culture citizen
Fantasy works for some, we all have views and opinions, and we are better for it. Personally I do not think AI is a positive thing... taken to it's extreme, when robots can build robots where does the human race fit in. Maybe our extinction will be at the hands of drones and droids. We have middle ages thinking ruling Parliament (MP's can vote, but the "Lords" can vote them down), Governments make decisions, but the unelected "Supreme" court dig up legislation older than Ken Clarke.
As an example, Windows 7 is no longer supported, what is to say AI x.y will not become defunct.
Utopia is a VERY dangerous dream, and I defy anyone to build AI that feels true love, hate, remorse, compassion, hunger, the need to procreate.
Society has spent thousands of years believing in a book, by some blokes, about a virgin, who got pregnant via an omnipresent god, who sent his son to slaughter. A man who built a boat that saved 2 of everything (no mention of sea creatures not needing saving), a man who recieved some tablets on the mountain... a bloke who seperated a sea, another bloke who defeated a bloke much bigger....
humanity is built on myth and legend, AI is the next one.
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| Quote: IR80 "Utopia is a VERY dangerous dream, and I defy anyone to build AI that feels true love, hate, remorse, compassion, hunger, the need to procreate.'"
I would have thought that the very human qualities you've described are exactly what you *wouldn't* want an AI to feel - as they're what produce irrational, flawed and illogical decisions and subsequently, actions; all the things that a benevolent oversight model should seek to eliminate - so that us lesser, biological entities, with all our flaws and idiosyncrasies, could enact them freely, without causing harm to society. |
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'Thus I am tormented by my curiosity and humbled by my ignorance.' from History of an Old Bramin, The New York Mirror (A Weekly Journal Devoted to Literature and the Fine Arts), February 16th 1833.:d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_33809.png |
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| Quote: bren2k "I read those books and it struck me that if the development of AI was in the hands of benevolent actors, that is more than likely what they would aim for; it was refreshing to explore a utopian future, rather than the dystopia that is often the default of sci-fi writers. Cory Doctorow has also written some interesting stuff around post-scarcity anarchy, and the future of society and how it interacts with technology.
To the question - I would happily live as a Culture citizen
Yeah, sounds alright dunnit? I agree about the utopian take. There’s a theory that entertainment tones tends to go in the opposite direction to societies’ current feeling. So real-world hard times drive up production of happy, feelgood stories and good times see more gritty realism on the page/screen. I’m a bit dubious about the theory, but all the ecological breakdown and demagoguery I need, I can get from the news.
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