| FORUMS > The Sin Bin > Historical sexual abuse charges... |
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| Quote: Standee "no, he cant be convicted Lord God AHole said so!
5years and 9 months is 20 years too few for me, he stole the childhoods and innocence of so many, the fact he'll be out in 2 and a half years disgusts me, I am sure he'll have some new frineds inside.
Amazing isn't it, defraud the VAT/HMRC officers and you get 8 years plus, touch up children and you get a few years...!'"
No you don't, not if you do it now - if you read the judges comments then that is highlighted very well. |
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| Quote: JerryChicken "No you don't, not if you do it now - if you read the judges comments then that is highlighted very well.'"
have missed that part, care to expand? |
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It's got to be based on the law and sentences as they were at the time though.
Yes it's probably not enough, but he's 84, ill according to the judge's remarks (and his records and a report will be sent to the Prison Service, suggesting it isn't a minor thing) so I'd guess he's unlikely to see the light of day again.
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| Quote: Chris28 "It's got to be based on the law and sentences as they were at the time though.
Yes it's probably not enough, but he's 84, ill according to the judge's remarks (and his records and a report will be sent to the Prison Service, suggesting it isn't a minor thing) so I'd guess he's unlikely to see the light of day again.'"
does that make any difference, the fact he might die in jail just means he's going to be more expensive to keep, he should have to pay for his day to day care and needs, sorry, but child molestation is the absolute lowest. I can almost forgive murder as a crime of passion, but touching up kids, there can be no reasonable mitigation. |
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[color=#000000:ogl9gbum]"Back home we got a taxidermy man. He gonna have a heart attack when he see what I brung him."[/color:ogl9gbum]:d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_50733.jpg |
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| Quote: Standee "have missed that part, care to expand?'"
He was sentenced based on when the offences took place. Had they have happened more recently he may well have been looking at a much larger sentence. |
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Someday everything is gonna be different, when I paint my masterpiece
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It should also be noted that sentencing guidelines are just that - guidelines for the judges to decide upon the length of the sentence, the sentencing guidelines for magistrates for example is available to browse on the web, search for "the bench book" and you'll find that it contains dozens upon dozens of pages of guidelines for sentencing all sorts of offences with all sorts of variations depending on the circumstances of each individual case, its not as simple as "He carried a knife therefore its five years" despite what the tabloids would like everyone to believe.
I would imagine that the guidelines for High Court judges would be similar and reading the judgement its obvious that he took into account quite a bit of mitigation and that he was a little frustrated that he couldn't apply today's tariffs.
All in all I think its a reasonable result.
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| Quote: JerryChicken "All in all I think its a reasonable result.'"
So, if it was one of yours, you'd feel the same? |
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[color=#000000:ogl9gbum]"Back home we got a taxidermy man. He gonna have a heart attack when he see what I brung him."[/color:ogl9gbum]:d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_50733.jpg |
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Whether it's 5 years or 25 years, his life outside of prison will be a sentence in itself. If he lives to see the day he is due for release that is. No one will want to be associated with him, his reputation is now in tatters.
A friend of mine who owns an art gallery only commented the other day that a woman had been in to buy a painting to replace an original Rolf Harris painting she'd taken down in light of the trial. We were looking at Rolf Harris artworks for sale on ebay today and one seller has added to his listing of 3 prints - *** REDUCED IN PRICE - THESE NEED TO GO ***
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Someday everything is gonna be different, when I paint my masterpiece
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[url=http://garykitchen.co.uk/:lnkxkae0]Online art gallery, selling original landscape artwork[/url:lnkxkae0]
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| Quote: Standee "So, if it was one of yours, you'd feel the same?'"
Nope, but thats not how the law works, victims statements are a small part of sentencing and can be taken into account but will still not affect the overwhelming reason why historical sex abuse trials result in what some perceive to be small sentences - the fact that they are sentenced according to guidelines prevailing at the time of the offences is the overwhelming reason.
In the case of Rolf Harris I must admit to being slightly in agreement with LGJM in that one of the victims has claimed in her statement that the whole of her life has been ruined by what Harris did to her, her alcoholism and the fact that she has never held down a job in her life so far is all blamed on what Harris did to her - and yet she allowed the abuse to continue for several years and on several occasions and on into an age when she certainly could act for herself as an adult - for me that doesn't seem to add up and your mantra of "personal responsibility" could easily be applied here. |
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| Quote: JerryChicken "
In the case of Rolf Harris I must admit to being slightly in agreement with LGJM in that one of the victims has claimed in her statement that the whole of her life has been ruined by what Harris did to her, her alcoholism and the fact that she has never held down a job in her life so far is all blamed on what Harris did to her - and yet she allowed the abuse to continue for several years and on several occasions and on into an age when she certainly could act for herself as an adult - for me that doesn't seem to add up and your mantra of "personal responsibility" could easily be applied here.'"
I agree and the victim statement from the one who was 7 or 8 at the time is hard to believe as it apparently at took away here childhood, left her an angry child and unable to trust men. Maybe it did, maybe it didn't but how you can connect the two is hard to see. She was at most 8 years old, what happened was a one off (and yes highly improper and disgusting) grope but I can't help thinking if you are asked to say how it affected you then you will think of something to say.
The judge has treated the statement as the gospel truth though which I also find disturbing as a general principle. Because the accused has been fond guilty the victim's impact statement is taken as read without challenge. |
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Someday everything is gonna be different, when I paint my masterpiece
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[url=http://garykitchen.co.uk/:lnkxkae0]Online art gallery, selling original landscape artwork[/url:lnkxkae0]
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[url=http://jerrychicken.wordpress.com/:lnkxkae0]JerryChicken - The Blog[/url:lnkxkae0]
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| Quote: King Street Cat "Whether it's 5 years or 25 years, his life outside of prison will be a sentence in itself. If he lives to see the day he is due for release that is. No one will want to be associated with him, his reputation is now in tatters.
A friend of mine who owns an art gallery only commented the other day that a woman had been in to buy a painting to replace an original Rolf Harris painting she'd taken down in light of the trial. We were looking at Rolf Harris artworks for sale on ebay today and one seller has added to his listing of 3 prints - *** REDUCED IN PRICE - THESE NEED TO GO ***'"
As someone with a slight interest in art I find that attitude rather strange, possibly not with his prints which are all part of the general "flavour of the month" faddy art market, (the fact that you can buy them on ebay tells you that) but his original artwork is still high quality artwork, despite what you think about him he is still a fine artist and his original work does not alter for the fact that he is a sex offender, nor (in my opinion) will that devalue it in the long term, it may even make it more valuable especially the fact that there won't be much new work for a while.
The bohemian nature of artists in the past should make us question their sexual predatory nature and should in theory devalue their works but it doesn't, did any question Picasso when he, in today terminology "groomed" a teenage girl when he was in his sixties and then married her when she was 21, did anyone ever question Gauguin when he fled France and exiled himself in Tahiti and made a career of painting young naked Tahitian girls - well maybe they did at the time but we see them, and many others, as great artists now... |
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| Quote: Derwent "Ok so that's one of the twelve charges you've dealt with and a fairly minor one at that. '"
The problem with the offences that were supposed to take place in 1975/76 when he only went there in 1978 is that the fact he went there in 1978 was used as evidence he was liar.
He said he had no recollection of ever having been to Cambridge before 2000. Then it comes out he went in 1978 so despite the fact he wasn't there or on the show the victim said the assault occurred on in 1975/76 he is now branded a liar.
Now you might say it was unreasonable to expect the victim to pinpoint the date or even mention the correct show this assault occurred on but then it's surely unreasonable to effectively go fishing for a date when he was in this location and imply that must be when it happened. Likewise the fact he said he'd never been there before 2000 is not an unreasonable thing to suggest but suppose he [ihad[/i recalled being there in 1978? That would have been a straightforward and verifiable contradiction of the evidence before the jury but because he said 2000 it works against him.
Even if this particular case had been found not-guilty (which it wasn't) it would still have been being used as a mechanism to paint Harris as a liar trying to talk his way out of his crimes. |
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In the sentencing hearing this morning the prosecuting counsel told the court that police had found a substantial amount of child porn on Harris' computer after he was arrested. Those offences have been allowed to lie on file. It's clear that he had an unhealthy interest in children and I'd be surprised if there weren't many other victims over the years.
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Someday everything is gonna be different, when I paint my masterpiece
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[url=http://garykitchen.co.uk/:lnkxkae0]Online art gallery, selling original landscape artwork[/url:lnkxkae0]
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[url=http://jerrychicken.wordpress.com/:lnkxkae0]JerryChicken - The Blog[/url:lnkxkae0]
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www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/ ... ldren.html
33 images is enough but not what most would call "substantial", nor was it ever provable that the "teenage" girls in the images were underage as you can read in the article above - this is a major problem with crimes like this and also with the reporting of such crimes.
Its quite easy for a crappy tabloid, lets say The Mail for instance, with a record of featuring under 18 year olds on their web site sidebar of shame clad in very few clothes and calling them "leggy" or admiring the way they are developing, its quite easy for such a publication to state "substantial" without ever having to explain that none of the images may actually have been illegal or that nothing of the sort has actually been proven in a court of law.
What is VERY interesting about this case is that Harris was one of the first "names" to have been arrested right back at the start of Yewtree but his lawyers successfully pressurised the media into not naming him for over twelve months until one of them finally broke ranks, in the meantime several other "names" who were interviewed were all named instantly in the media - why them and not him ?
Having an interest in his art I saw allegations printed on a forum on his web site right at the start which were quickly removed and the forum shut down and at one point a statement mentioned that police enquiries were rigorously denied and no further comment would be made - his web site and the selling part of his web site has now been removed.
You may wonder if the evidence against him at that point was not enough to write a tabloid headline over or whether the threat of a several times millionaire taking them to a libel court may have persuaded them otherwise, but why not Freddie Starr (for instance) who's "evidence" was even more flimsy, too flimsy to even bother with a court case and yet he was still named immediately ?
Is this the reason why jimmy Savile got away with it for so long ?
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www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/ ... ldren.html
33 images is enough but not what most would call "substantial", nor was it ever provable that the "teenage" girls in the images were underage as you can read in the article above - this is a major problem with crimes like this and also with the reporting of such crimes.
Its quite easy for a crappy tabloid, lets say The Mail for instance, with a record of featuring under 18 year olds on their web site sidebar of shame clad in very few clothes and calling them "leggy" or admiring the way they are developing, its quite easy for such a publication to state "substantial" without ever having to explain that none of the images may actually have been illegal or that nothing of the sort has actually been proven in a court of law.
What is VERY interesting about this case is that Harris was one of the first "names" to have been arrested right back at the start of Yewtree but his lawyers successfully pressurised the media into not naming him for over twelve months until one of them finally broke ranks, in the meantime several other "names" who were interviewed were all named instantly in the media - why them and not him ?
Having an interest in his art I saw allegations printed on a forum on his web site right at the start which were quickly removed and the forum shut down and at one point a statement mentioned that police enquiries were rigorously denied and no further comment would be made - his web site and the selling part of his web site has now been removed.
You may wonder if the evidence against him at that point was not enough to write a tabloid headline over or whether the threat of a several times millionaire taking them to a libel court may have persuaded them otherwise, but why not Freddie Starr (for instance) who's "evidence" was even more flimsy, too flimsy to even bother with a court case and yet he was still named immediately ?
Is this the reason why jimmy Savile got away with it for so long ?
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| Quote: Standee "no, he cant be convicted Lord God AHole said so!
5years and 9 months is 20 years too few for me, he stole the childhoods and innocence of so many, the fact he'll be out in 2 and a half years disgusts me, I am sure he'll have some new frineds inside.
Amazing isn't it, defraud the VAT/HMRC officers and you get 8 years plus, touch up children and you get a few years...!'"
I haven't read any of the subsequent replies. I clicked on the link for the judges summation and it was NA. But I will just quickly respond to you.
I've explained at very long length my reasons for feeling uneasy at him being sent to prison. I've implored someone to point me to examples of why his jail sentence is justified. No one has offered anything as to why he deserves to be labelled a paedo and his life in extreme danger unless he is massively protected in prison.
But everyone pretty much seems to support him going to jail for a long lime and will probably cheer if he doesn't last a week inside before being killed.
IMO the only reason for this is that he's been labelled as a paedophile. Apart from the 8 year old girl, the label isn't even appropriate. But because he's labelled as a paedo people seem to instinctively want him dead.
If Harris did touch the 8 year old girl inappropriately then TBH I join in with everyone else in hoping he's killed. If he did that then let him swing. But if you're happy with a he said, she said 40 years after the event that's your right. It leaves me with a profound sense of unease.
I've hinted in my posts, perhaps badly, about times in my life when people were in the grips of a media frenzy. The nonsense fabrication of satanic ritual abuse, the issue of repressed and fabricated memories, Roseanne Barr and her allegation that nearly everyone's been abused, we just don't remember it. Most of these frenzies turn out to be nonsense. IMO with the death of Savile and post death feeding frenzy we've gone from one extreme to the other. |
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