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FORUMS > The Sin Bin > Brexit Anyone ? (part 3)
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Quote: wrencat1873 "This is ok but, necessarily, we are making it more difficult to trade with our closest and largest market, which is crazy.
Unless the promises of a free trade deal with the EU AND the ability to trade everywhere else with supremely beneficial trade deals, all of which will take multiple years to set up.
The picture sole by leave suggested zero down side and yet, our current government's new best buddies (the DUP) seem to have a significantly different view and the Irish Border certainly wasn't mentioned during the referendum campaign (by either side).
The deal with the EU has to give the UK less preferential terms (if only to prevent other countries from trying to leave) and we still come back to a fundamental situation thet, there isn't a hope in hell of the UK using preferential trading terms with say India/ China, to gain commercial benefit, to supply certain good back into the EU - It wont happen.

Also, from the debacle that we have all witnessed so far (the negotiations with the EU 27), do you really think that the UK will do better then the EU when negotiating with the "rest of the world" ? really ?
I think we would be more agile - how is the EU's deal going with the US!! guarantee we would have a deal sorted quicker and on similar terms to the EU. Has the EU got advantageous terms compared to any other smaller country?

The EU is slow growth area - why would consider this a better option than dealing with the likes of India/China etc in the longer term?

The UK is the EU largest single market perhaps it is in their interest also to do a preferential deal with us?

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Quote: Mild Rover "You know what? It’s late in the day, but fair play to her on her latest offer. If she is serious, then I hope Corbyn isn’t a wally about it.'"


Let’s hope Corbyn is smarter than you and sees this for the trap it is.

Whether Brexit does or doesn’t happen as a result of this ‘meeting’, I’ll guarantee you that the blame will be laid at the door of Corbyn/Labour by the MSM.

He should call another vote of no confidence.

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Which laws negatively impacted you?

It’s bigger than affecting one person, it’s how it affects the country as a whole. The EU has done great things when it comes to safety and the environment, but it’s a giant beast that is running away with itself. The EU has brought in the Marrakesh Political Declaration and this will affect every single one of us, it’s a declaration to make it easier for Africans to migrate to EU countries albeit legally, it will flood the labour market with Africans whether you be a Doctor, police officer, IT worker, train driver, civil servant etc there will be more people in this country as a result and more people using the infrastructure.

What don't you like about immigration?

The fact that it floods he market with cheap labour keeping wages down, and don’t quote the rise of the minimum wage, I’m talking people who don’t earn minimum wage like tradesmen. If the minimum wage keeps rising we will all be on it. Prior to 2004 when Poland joined the EU I knew a lot of gangs (no, not the stabby drug dealing type, I mean brick layers, plumbers, sparkys etc) who would go down to London for work but with the influx of foreign labour this made these tradesmen stop up North saturating the labour market, then the foreign workers came North too and again saturated the labour market. So by saturating the labour market you keep wages low.

How much of the EU contribution was wasted do you think]]?

What about the 114 Million euros a year it costs to move from Brussels to Strasbourg once a month.

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Quote: Strinket "Let’s hope Corbyn is smarter than you and sees this for the trap it is.

Whether Brexit does or doesn’t happen as a result of this ‘meeting’, I’ll guarantee you that the blame will be laid at the door of Corbyn/Labour by the MSM.

He should call another vote of no confidence.'"


I did say ‘if she is serious’. I’d like to think that even she wouldn’t rock up to the meeting just expecting him to provide Labour support for MV4.

Yes, it’s a trap in one sense. He’ll get the blame for facilitating a Tory Brexit on the one hand, and for it being too soft on the other. It’s an absolute shizzle time to be a political leader, and his ambitions will likely go the same way May’s have. She is, of course, asking him to sup from the poisoned cup that Cameron handed her. But the alternative is No Deal, so he is trapped anyway.

I don’t want to see him get Clegged, and i’d have preferred the tories to own this. However, that’s life and maybe this is a chance for both of them to go out as heroes, martyred on the political pyre that is Brexit. I think they’d deserve a commemorative mug, emblazoned with both their faces.

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Quote: Sal Paradise "The remain campaign said the economy would collapse and we would need an emergency budget with a hike in tax rates if we voted to leave. Something you appear to have omitted from your post? Or are you suggesting that didn't happen?'"

That could still happen, we haven’t left yet, if we leave without a deal the economy will more than likely go into a recession.

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Quote: Strinket "Let’s hope Corbyn is smarter than you and sees this for the trap it is.

Whether Brexit does or doesn’t happen as a result of this ‘meeting’, I’ll guarantee you that the blame will be laid at the door of Corbyn/Labour by the MSM.

He should call another vote of no confidence.'"

You are absolutely right this is a trap to try and blame the monumental cockup on Corbyn and Labour. In the 2 years since article 50, May hasn’t even been able to get her cabinet to agree on a plan, never mind her own party to back a plan of hers.

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Quote: Sal Paradise "I think we would be more agile - how is the EU's deal going with the US!! guarantee we would have a deal sorted quicker and on similar terms to the EU. Has the EU got advantageous terms compared to any other smaller country?

The EU is slow growth area - why would consider this a better option than dealing with the likes of India/China etc in the longer term?

The UK is the EU largest single market perhaps it is in their interest also to do a preferential deal with us?'"


Come on, you've seen our negotiations with the EU and the stalemate which "we" have arrived at.
Do you really rate the UK's chances of obtaining better deals around the world than the EU have managed.

Also, how long do you think these will take ?? Some of the hard line Brexitiers seems to suggest that it was akin to on line shopping but, any serious trade deal will take years - unless we sell ourselves on the cheap ??

Anyway, it may all be for nowt as May, having totally lost the support of her cabinet, is now begging for help from Corbyn.
Who would have thought that this would be her next move icon_surprised.gifops:

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Quote: wrencat1873 "Come on, you've seen our negotiations with the EU and the stalemate which "we" have arrived at.
Do you really rate the UK's chances of obtaining better deals around the world than the EU have managed.

Also, how long do you think these will take ?? Some of the hard line Brexitiers seems to suggest that it was akin to on line shopping but, any serious trade deal will take years - unless we sell ourselves on the cheap ??

Anyway, it may all be for nowt as May, having totally lost the support of her cabinet, is now begging for help from Corbyn.
Who would have thought that this would be her next move
You are talking about the worst PM we have ever had who has been a disaster at every job she has ever had. I could negotiate a better deal than her - it is no wonder she can't keep her party together she has under mind them at every opportunity but rather than lead by example has simply crumbled as soon as the pressure has been exerted.

As I asked before show me an example of where the EU have negotiated a better trade deal?

Corbyn is so stupid he is walking into a trap - he can't win here: No brexit is political suicide and he will get the blame for not supporting the withdrawl agreement, a soft brexit and a huge volumes of voters will feel betrayed.

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Quote: Sir Kevin Sinfield "That could still happen, we haven’t left yet, if we leave without a deal the economy will more than likely go into a recession.'"


No - the remainers said it would be immediate - even you have to admit that hasn't happened

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Quote: Sal Paradise "You are talking about the worst PM we have ever had who has been a disaster at every job she has ever had. I could negotiate a better deal than her - it is no wonder she can't keep her party together she has under mind them at every opportunity but rather than lead by example has simply crumbled as soon as the pressure has been exerted.

As I asked before show me an example of where the EU have negotiated a better trade deal?

Corbyn is so stupid he is walking into a trap - he can't win here

So, what sort of Brexit will not have people screaming betrayal, whilst at the same time sticking to the Good Friday Agreement and continuing to treat NI the same as the rest of the UK?

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Quote: Sal Paradise "

As I asked before show me an example of where the EU have negotiated a better trade deal?
'"


There is no example of the EU negotiating a better trade deal than the UK as we have, for the last 40+ years, come under their umbrella.
The argument for the EU is whether as a trading bloc, they have struck the right balance between protecting their member nations, whilst achieving "good" deals with other nations and on balance, I would suggest that they have.

Of course, there will be instances of certain trading sectors in particular nations where someone may not be happy but, the overall picture is ok and we know where we are.
The "leave" brigade want us to believe the scmidt that comes out of the mouths of Boris "two faced" Johnson, Gove, Farage etc.
I dont like Corbyn's politics but, even he is more honourable than these people, who are bothered about NOBODY, other than themselves.

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Quote: wrencat1873 "There is no example of the EU negotiating a better trade deal than the UK as we have, for the last 40+ years, come under their umbrella.
The argument for the EU is whether as a trading bloc, they have struck the right balance between protecting their member nations, whilst achieving "good" deals with other nations and on balance, I would suggest that they have.

Of course, there will be instances of certain trading sectors in particular nations where someone may not be happy but, the overall picture is ok and we know where we are.
The "leave" brigade want us to believe the scmidt that comes out of the mouths of Boris "two faced" Johnson, Gove, Farage etc.
I dont like Corbyn's politics but, even he is more honourable than these people, who are bothered about NOBODY, other than themselves.'"


I didn't ask whether the EU had negotiated a better deal than the UK I asked for an example of where the EU had used its size to negotiate a better deal than a smaller nation. The US is an example of where the EU falls down when negotiating trade deals. Do you honestly think the UK could not get the same/better deal in quicker time?

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Regarding the Irish border problem, the DUP not supporting any of Teresa May proposals may ultimately bring in a Corbyn government. It’s a well known fact both Corbyn and McDonnell have always supported the movement for a United ireland. Any kind of movement towards this could potentially trigger another Scottish referendum. I always assumed that whoever paid the piper called the tune. Bearing in mind the money Teresa May has shoveled towards Northern Ireland it’s obviously not the case.

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If May thought a bit of money would permanently win over a bunch of medieval fascists then she is even more stupid than I gave her credit.

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Quote: Backwoodsman "Regarding the Irish border problem, the DUP not supporting any of Teresa May proposals may ultimately bring in a Corbyn government. It’s a well known fact both Corbyn and McDonnell have always supported the movement for a United ireland. Any kind of movement towards this could potentially trigger another Scottish referendum. I always assumed that whoever paid the piper called the tune. Bearing in mind the money Teresa May has shoveled towards Northern Ireland it’s obviously not the case.'"


The DUP are hard-nosed and tough to deal with - if she thought that bunging them a few quid would secure their votes, then she's clearly spent no time researching their history; or, it demonstrates the level of desperation when her snap election utterly backfired and reduced the Tories to a minority, relying on Arlene and the ERG to prop her up - hence the dogged determination to stick to the red lines that kept the more swivel-eyed of JRM's cabal of lunatics tentatively on board.

With regards her offer to Mr Corbyn - it's 2 years too late, and is clearly a trap; if not, the hardline Brexiteers in the cabinet would have walked out of that long meeting and resigned on the spot - and I'm sure JC and his team will recognise that. If I were him, I'd insist on live-streaming it, so she can't claim to have been conciliatory and reasonable, but that nasty Marxist wouldn't play ball.

Once again, Corbyn has played a blinder - he's now the de-facto PM.

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