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“At last, a real, Tory budget,” Daily Mail 24/9/22 "It may be that the honourable gentleman doesn't like mixing with his own side … but we on this side have a more convivial, fraternal spirit." Jacob Rees-Mogg 21/10/21 A member of the Guardian-reading, tofu-eating wokerati.:d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_755.jpg



Quote: Sal Paradise "He has no chance in my view - he will get all the Tories except possibly Grieve - if the other side want the deal to go through then they need to put up and vote. The protestants are a minority in Ireland and sooner or later it will become one Catholic run state - the breeding numbers alone for tell the future.'"

Hopefully it will be a democratic Socialist run Republican state with organised religion confined to hell where it belongs.

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Quote: tigertot "Hopefully it will be a democratic Socialist run Republican state with organised religion confined to hell where it belongs.'"


Could not agree more - sadly the reality will end up being something different, religion has a lot to answer for

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Quote: The Ghost of '99 "The success of this vote depends on whether the nutter wing of the Tory party votes for it. those expelled members mostly probably will because they've always voted for Brexit, no matter what lies some believe.
I suspect it will get through with a bit of Labour support. The subsequent election will be fascinating. Johnson appears to think he'll win because he got it done. But once we get back onto domestic policies the Tory appeal to many working class Brexiteers may fall away. Although Labour have not exactly got an appealing leadership for them to return to.'"


I agree - I think Boris will win comfortably because Labour "everything for everybody" policies are simply not achievable and Corbyn is not liked or trusted in the country. His supporter base is amongst the young and impressionable hence why he wants the voting age reduced to 16. There lack of leadership on Brexit is one example of why they are unelectable.

As I mentioned above why do Labour think we need the EU to protect labour/environmental standards surely this is something that we should control and as such a Labour government would be able now to do their own thing.

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“At last, a real, Tory budget,” Daily Mail 24/9/22 "It may be that the honourable gentleman doesn't like mixing with his own side … but we on this side have a more convivial, fraternal spirit." Jacob Rees-Mogg 21/10/21 A member of the Guardian-reading, tofu-eating wokerati.:d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_755.jpg



Quote: Sal Paradise "Could not agree more - sadly the reality will end up being something different, religion has a lot to answer for'"

I've just done a bit of reading on socio-political-religious trends in NI - it's quite interesting. The number of people identifying as no religion, the proportion of Catholics in work, the number of Protestants who leave not to return, the number of Catholics 'attracted' to the union (UK) are all growing. Even though the number identifying as Catholic in NI might be in the majority in the next 10 years that doesn't translate into an obvious majority to leave the UK.

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Quote: The Ghost of '99 "The success of this vote depends on whether the nutter wing of the Tory party votes for it. those expelled members mostly probably will because they've always voted for Brexit, no matter what lies some believe.
I suspect it will get through with a bit of Labour support. The subsequent election will be fascinating. Johnson appears to think he'll win because he got it done. But once we get back onto domestic policies the Tory appeal to many working class Brexiteers may fall away. Although Labour have not exactly got an appealing leadership for them to return to.'"


Labour, right now are screwed and assuming that Brexit happens (I'm not convinced), the Tories, with the Brexit party surplus to requirements, will very likely gain an overall majority.
They have stolen a march on Labour with their (wild) spending promises on the NHS and Police and are most likely to be the largest party in Westminster.
Labour "may" be able to do a deal with the SNP to sneak into power but, they are all over the place with their messaging and IMO have been for some little while.

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Quote: wrencat1873 "Labour, right now are screwed and assuming that Brexit happens (I'm not convinced), the Tories, with the Brexit party surplus to requirements, will very likely gain an overall majority.
They have stolen a march on Labour with their (wild) spending promises on the NHS and Police and are most likely to be the largest party in Westminster.
Labour "may" be able to do a deal with the SNP to sneak into power but, they are all over the place with their messaging and IMO have been for some little while.'"


I agree about Brexit - what will be interesting is if the deal goes through will Labour agree to a GE as they said they would i.e. no risk of no deal then happy for a GE!!

Only way they do a deal with the SNP is offer a referendum - Corbyn has said no - if Scotland goes you will never see another Labour government for many many years

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It pains me to think that people will continue voting for a party which has caused so much suffering over the last 9 years, headed by a leader that most people acknowledge as being a serial liar.

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Quote: silver2 "It pains me to think that people will continue voting for a party which has caused so much suffering over the last 9 years, headed by a leader that most people acknowledge as being a serial liar.'"


They inherited a complete mess from Brown, Cooper, Balls etc what did you expect them to do?

Most people will have seen their standard of living remain flat if not improve - interest rates are at an historic low and we are country with significant personal debt so most are able to borrow to invest at cheap rates.

The alternative is seriously unpalatable and would leave the country in the same state the last Labour government handed over to the Tories.

Johnson is like all other politicians they never tell the truth - Starmer on Marr this morning refuses to comit Labour to a vote of no confidence if a no deal Brexit is secured - despite asking for a GE and definitely stating they would do it. Why would you trust Labour?

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Quote: Sal Paradise "They inherited a complete mess from Brown, Cooper, Balls etc what did you expect them to do?

Most people will have seen their standard of living remain flat if not improve - interest rates are at an historic low and we are country with significant personal debt so most are able to borrow to invest at cheap rates.

The alternative is seriously unpalatable and would leave the country in the same state the last Labour government handed over to the Tories.

Johnson is like all other politicians they never tell the truth - Starmer on Marr this morning refuses to comit Labour to a vote of no confidence if a no deal Brexit is secured - despite asking for a GE and definitely stating they would do it. Why would you trust Labour?'"


If you read the Daily Mail, Telegraph etc it's easy to believe that the banking crisis of 2008 was caused by Labour. However, a little research on the internet tells a very different story.

9 years of austerity have been the result. Do you remember Cameron saying 'were all in this together'. Well, I'm sorry but you dont see many posh lads sleeping on the streets or going to food banks.

As for Kier Starmer on Marr, I believe he was non committal because as he said, it was a decision for Jeremy Corbyn not himself - and to me that sounds reasonable. It's much better that the leader makes that type of decision - I mean you wouldn't want to leave it to a non elected backroom boy such as Cummings would you?

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Quote: silver2 "If you read the Daily Mail, Telegraph etc it's easy to believe that the banking crisis of 2008 was caused by Labour. However, a little research on the internet tells a very different story.

9 years of austerity have been the result. Do you remember Cameron saying 'were all in this together'. Well, I'm sorry but you dont see many posh lads sleeping on the streets or going to food banks.'"

Most sensible people accept the crisis of 2007/8 was not down to Labour, but of course in a debate it makes good ammunition.

Question: do you think the Tories implemented austerity just because they wanted to? Just because they could? Because they're the 'nasty party'? As a right larf?

Austerity was always going to be a hugely damaging policy which would lose them votes and create an enormous amount of ill-feeling and political ammunition. So why would any party choose this path? Interesting to note that 2 general elections later they're still in government (note I didn't say 'in power').

So, why do you think they did it?

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Quote: Cronus "Most sensible people accept the crisis of 2007/8 was not down to Labour, but of course in a debate it makes good ammunition.

Question

It's an interesting question regarding austerity and whilst there is little doubt that the public purse needed tightening, whether the cuts were needed for as long and whether they needed to be as deep, is certainly a matter of opinion.
Certainly regarding law and order, there has been the sharpest of all changes of tack since Boris took the reigns, although he is prone to huge exaggeration and despite his "commitment", it's unlikely that we will see the increased numbers in anything like the timescale in which they have been promised and yet again, his words are designed to buy votes, rather than what will actually happen - he is gaining something of a reputation in his words massively exceeding his deeds.
It would be refreshing is just some of our politicians we a little more honest.
Mrs May insistant that the reduction in policing numbers had nothing to do with the increase in certain types of crime and yet, her successor, instantly promises to replace (and increase) the 18,000 lost police during the austerity period.
It would appear that the previous Prime Minister or the current version (or both) were wrong ?

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If austerity had been introduced by a socialist government I would've had more faith in the reasoning behind it. Likewise Brexit. If the Tory cabinet didnt contain so many privileged chancers and liars then I might, just might, believe it was a good idea.

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Onwards and upwards - LTID:



Quote: silver2 "If austerity had been introduced by a socialist government I would've had more faith in the reasoning behind it. Likewise Brexit. If the Tory cabinet didnt contain so many privileged chancers and liars then I might, just might, believe it was a good idea.'"


Did the working class people of the UK not vote for Brexit rather than the Tory cabinet icon_confused.gif icon_confused.gif

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Quote: ColD "Did the working class people of the UK not vote for Brexit rather than the Tory cabinet
Yes, the same people who are targetted by right wing rags such as the Sun, the Express and the Mail. If you're given the wrong "facts" the chances are you'll make the wrong decisions.

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Quote: silver2 "Yes, the same people who are targetted by right wing rags such as the Sun, the Express and the Mail. If you're given the wrong "facts" the chances are you'll make the wrong decisions.'"


Not that again - there were as many lies on the remain side as the leave side.

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