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Quote: IR80 "But they'd want a 20% pay rise! The saying 'them that can, do, them that can't, teach' rings true.Teachers get paid way more than nurses, with less qualification It's like GP's and Dentists, totally overpaid compared to the porters, cleaners etc.All the unions want is more so they can put the subs up and people like McF&sky can keep dining out at The Ivy and drinking in Soho. (and believe
Here we go again. Same old record. We're looking for a solution, and bashing the unions surprisingly wont affect how the virus behaves one little bit.

So, whats your proposed way forward?

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Quote: Sal Paradise "

No proposition is without risk - if the teaching unions had their way no kids would go back to school until a vaccine were available - its ridiculous'"


Do you have a reliable reference to underpin that statement?

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Quote: silver2 "Do you have a reliable reference to underpin that statement?'"


Not unless it's on the front of the Mail or the Express icon_wink.gif
As others have said, it doesn't appear that the kids themselves will be at significant risk but, just like everything from chickenpox to measles etc, kids are very good at bringing these viruses back home with them and Johnson & Co have done nothing to deal with this or bother to explain what happens when opening schools stokes the "R" number.
Of course kids need to be learning and of course they should be at school but, this isn't the issue here.

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Quote: silver2 "So, whats your proposed way forward?'"


He hasn't got one of those. It'd require him to actually post something other than an insult.

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Quote: King Street Cat "He hasn't got one of those. It'd require him to actually post something other than an insult.'"

I’m glad you noticed that. He said the same about me!

We have to get the kids back to school as safely as possible. Not only for their education but also to get parents back to work

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Quote: Steph Curry "I’m glad you noticed that. He said the same about me!'"


Thought he was a top bloke you only had love for? icon_lol.gif

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Quote: The Devil's Advocate "On that we can agree, however it's what happens when the kids take it home to parents & grandparents & off we go again.'"


Are you seriously suggesting that kids are not mixing now? Risks are minimal of them going back to school - numerous reports in various countries suggest this to be the case. Have they had a big increase in Denmark/Norway since kids went back to school?

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Quote: silver2 "Do you have a reliable reference to underpin that statement?'"


The risks are known - there are several independent reports out there yet the unions continue to advise member not to return to work. These are kids and young people you will never create the 100% safe environment that the unions are requesting until you get a vaccine. So what is the solution - its simple really - you accept the risk, minimise them wherever possible and get back to educating children - if you are not prepared to do that then perhaps a career change is for you?

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Quote: Sal Paradise " These are kids and young people you will never create the 100% safe environment that the unions are requesting until you get a vaccine. '"


So, where's the evidence that the unions are demanding a 100% safe environment?
- and whilst were at it, wheres the evidence that this government knows what they are doing wrt the virus?

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Quote: Sal Paradise "The risks are known - there are several independent reports out there yet the unions continue to advise member not to return to work. These are kids and young people you will never create the 100% safe environment that the unions are requesting until you get a vaccine. So what is the solution - its simple really - you accept the risk, minimise them wherever possible and get back to educating children - if you are not prepared to do that then perhaps a career change is for you?'"

Indeed, teachers (and their unions) seem to be forgetting that mpst parents work, so who looks after the kids during the day?

As tragic as every death is, it has been less than 1% of the population, we are better equipped now with social distancing and other measures, kids have precious little to look forward to in later life without a decent education, denying them that for some political upstaging is immoral.

Doctors, Nurses, Porters, Paramedics, Police, Fire, Armed Forces, Coastguard, RNLI and countless others (Supermarket Workers, Bank Staff) risk themselves in their roles, why are teachers a special case?

We need to get used to the fact that Covid is here to stay, and adapt.

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The opening of schools in the US has not gone too well but why should that be the same for us because we have the in depth planning of the Johnson government.

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Quote: silver2 "So, where's the evidence that the unions are demanding a 100% safe environment?
- and whilst were at it, wheres the evidence that this government knows what they are doing wrt the virus?'"


Let's start with the EIS a quote from Larry Flannagan

"Even with full implementation of the guidelines and its mitigations, many teachers and parents will be understandably nervous about a return to the classroom"

What does that say - it says even full implementation - its not enough - go figure?

Patrick Roach - NASUWT
"He also says teachers will not return to their jobs unless the Government affords them the same employment rights as other key workers "

Would you like some more direct quotes?

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Quote: Scarlet Pimpernell "The opening of schools in the US has not gone too well but why should that be the same for us because we have the in depth planning of the Johnson government.'"


Most of Europe have kids back in school - France has had them back for months - they were no better prepared than us.

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Quote: Sal Paradise "Most of Europe have kids back in school - France has had them back for months - they were no better prepared than us.'"


Yes they do but they don’t have Johnson in charge whose track record is more Trump with his lack of planning.

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Quote: Sal Paradise "Suggestions are that spread of Covid in schools around the world is minimal - suggest teachers and their unions just get back to doing the job they are paid for. Stop their money if they don't want to return - let's see how many stick it out?'"



However research trumps your suggestions.

The times states that the research shows secondary schools pass it on like adults

Secondary school pupils are likely to transmit coronavirus as easily as adults, according to official research used by ministers to argue that it is safe for all children to return to class next month.
Scientists at Public Health England (PHE) believe that tougher rules are likely to be needed for older children, despite finding that primary pupils do not seem to pass the virus to each other.
Gavin Williamson, the education secretary, said yesterday that a study being conducted by PHE of thousands of pupils who returned to schools in June showed that there was little risk in government plans for all children to be back in the classroom for the new academic year next month.
However, The Times understands that researchers working on the study are unhappy with the way ministers have used the findings, which have not been fully analysed. The preliminary results do suggest that primary schools pose little danger, with only six positive tests out of 9,000 tested so far. These cases were not linked to each other and contact tracing suggested that the children had caught the virus from their parents or other carers outside school.
This morning Edward Argar, the health minister, admitted the PHE research among secondary pupils was “still work in progress”.
He told Sky News children, Covid-19 is a silent infection, with no or minimal transmission. The only time [primary] school children are at risk is if a child brings it into the school from home. Importantly, it does not seem to work the other way around.”

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