I'm just glad that you're not selecting leaders of either party.

Gove is the next worst option to Johnson and Thornbury ?? I'd rather have Corbyn and he's awful.
Unfortunately, the move to the left under Corbyn, has cost Labour most of the decent alternatives, they've either left, retired or jumped ship.
I actually turn the TV off when Thornbury starts speaking.

Politicians have no personality of strong beliefs these days, it's all about repeating sound bites, regardless of the question that may have been put to them.

My politics ddint agree with Skinner and Wedgewood Benn but, at least they would answer a question and have a genuine opinion. Very few, of either party, do that any more

It’s very easy to say what you don’t want, as we’ve seen with Brexit. Who’d be your choices from the likely candidates?

As for the good old days of politics versus now, politicians evolve to the electoral environment they find themselves in, and that is largely created by the voters. It’s maybe cyclical, and that’s why we’re getting throwbacks like John ‘Churchill and Tonypandy’ McDonnell, and JRM, the honourable member for the 18th Century. A bit of panto is fun, after years of smooth evasiveness, so long as it doesn’t descend too far into a chaotic inferno of hate. Too late? Oops.

I suggested Raab and Rudd as maybe's

As for Labour, the best 2 candidates that they've had post Blair, have been Milliband (David) but, they chose Ed ?? and Chucka Amunna but he didn't want to stay Keir Starmer, were he to stand, has the look of a leader or Shami Chakrabati, most of the rest have been nothing more than Corbyn wind bags and struggle to do anything other than relentlessly trot out pre prepared phrases, even when they are not in line with any questions being asked or relevant to the topic of the day and Thornbury is one of the worst offenders.

Okay, I’ll back-off on Thornbury. I did say ‘safe’ rather than ‘inspiring’, but fair enough.

I know it’s a bit like choosing between cat poo and dog poo, but I’d still take Gove ahead of Raab, everyday of the week.

I'm not going to back off from Nandy, what ever happens re Brexit I think she has really shown admirably even though she is a retainer and Labour I would vote for her if she was my local MP.

How can you say you would take Gove over anyone mate, he makes my skin crawl. Raab for me

The last 20 or so comments show just how messed up parliamentary democracy is, there aren't viable leaders on any side. This, OUR, Country is screwed.

And it's only taken 9 years for the Tories to get us to this point. Just think how things will be if they get another 9 years.

This isn't just down to the Conservatives (no such thing as Tories/Whigs for the last 200 years plus). Try reading some history.

Sorry pal, it is entirely down to the nutters in blue.

After nine years they haven't even got one saving grace to their credit, just a series of calamities. They've even managed to bring about the first fall in longevity since records began.

It's only took one referendum and them having to make and agree on a democratic decision made by the public, and none of them have got a clue how to proceed. I agree the way May went about it was really alienating and the wrong way for a decision such as this. However, this is a failure across the house not just the Tories IMO.

The Tories do not exist, nor the Whigs, people need to learn a bit more.

Parliament has made a mess of leaving the EU, on all sides.

The Tories are the party "in control" but, they haven't got a clue.
If Mrs May cant manage to find agreement within her own cabinet, how can the finger of blame be pointed elsewhere.

IF there was consensus among the Tories and Labour and the SNP etc were scuppering their chances, then, fair enough, you could point the finger elsewhere. However, the current mess is pretty much ALL of Mrs May's own making. From the failed land grab at the snap election which broke the Tories own rules, to the abject way that SHE ignored EVERYONE else and chose her own path.

How she is still at the helm is just mind boggling and perhaps you could blame Corbyn for not having the wit to oust her but this is down to Mrs May, her utter lack of vision and total lack of party leadership and her inability to do the job of Prime Minister, albeit in difficult circumstances.

The middle ground clearly lays with some kind of customs union and this may not appease all of the Brexitiers but, I do believe that it could get through parliament and then could possibly be "sold" to the electorate.

Quote: MGarbutt1986 "The Tories do not exist, nor the Whigs, people need to learn a bit more. Parliament has made a mess of leaving the EU, on all sides.'" Although the original Whig party was dissolved in 1868, there is an extant successor organisation, founded in 2014, following the Camberwell Declaration. It is a registered political party, if one in no great rush. whigs.uk https://batterseatest123.files.wordpres ... ration.pdf The Conservative party is direct successor to the Tory party, and Tory is now a colloquialism, I fully except. However, would say that the Airlie Birds don’t really exist because it’s an informal usage?

Quote: MGarbutt1986 "The Tories do not exist, nor the Whigs, people need to learn a bit more. Parliament has made a mess of leaving the EU, on all sides.'" Although the original Whig party was dissolved in 1868, there is an extant successor organisation, founded in 2014, following the Camberwell Declaration. It is a registered political party, if one in no great rush. whigs.uk https://batterseatest123.files.wordpres ... ration.pdf The Conservative party is direct successor to the Tory party, and Tory is now a colloquialism, I fully except. However, would say that the Airlie Birds don’t really exist because it’s an informal usage?

Ignoring the fact that you've put his name through a blender - Chuka Umunna had a pop at the Labour leadership, but his arris fell out when he realised just how unpopular he was; so he's now a centrist, Tory enabling, banker funded representative of an offshore company, squatting in parliament, and holding the votes of his constituents to ransom for as long as possible in the Funny Tinge party. He would never, in a million years, get anywhere near the Labour leadership - and if in some Marvel universe alternate timeline he somehow did, the membership would collapse overnight.

Get real WC - this iteration of the Labour Party is a socialist movement - and no matter the best efforts of the MSM and sentimental Blairites to foist Yvette Cooper or Jess Phillips on us, those days are not coming back.

As a paid up member, I'm more than happy with JC as leader - and I'd be very content to eventually see Rebecca Long-Bailey or Laura Pidcock pick up the mantle.

As for a new Tory leader - I see no value in any of them; Raab being the least credible by virtue of being Raab - and Gove being most likely, given that he's very much Murdoch's man.

Umunna & Raab appeal to those who don't give a stuff, or have any idea, about their policies. They look & sort of talk well, without actually ever saying anything.