Oh dear.

We're not talking about any socialists on this one, they are not the ones "running" the apology of a government and making a total hash of controlling the spread of the virus.
Allowing people to travel wherever they want to "exercise" was an absolute mistake, both in the message that it sent and risking the huge crowds seen at various beauty spots.

You dont have be a genius to work out what was going to happen, although, it did move the Cummings story from the front pages so, it was obviously worth while

As for pointing to the ways that different countries record their deaths, this is just the latest distraction tactic, to take the heat off our appalling numbers.

There are very few things that you can look at and think that "we" couldn't have done better.
Raising the capacity of ICU beds is probably the one exception to this and credit can be offered for this.
There is still a huge trust issue for most of the government output they have exaggerated and lied over every aspect of their handling and what little credibility they may have had at the start has long since disappeared.
Mickey up in a brewery springs to mind and this lot certainly couldn't organise one, even without the need for social distancing.

I see soggy mange cat has derailed, so I will post this link...rlThe REAL Black America opinion?rl

No.
You can find different voices on anything and they are not always illegitimate but citing a black Trump supporter when
90%+ of black Americans will vote for Biden is not going to find you a representative viewpoint.

Candace Owens on Facebook. I thought you 'thought for yourself'?

Quote: King Street Cat "Candace Owens on Facebook. I thought you 'thought for yourself'?'" Well, given almost everyone on here disregards anything said from an opposing viewpoint, it makes sense to listen to the views of someone who has experience of being a black American in the US. But you STILL ignore it. Do the left ever listen to anyone with opposing views? So how about this chap: https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1268 ... 34279.html ? Some very insightful numbers and strong points in there. The most astounding being that, when you break it down, 50% of ALL murders in the US are committed by 3.5% of the population: black men aged 15-40.

Quote: King Street Cat "Candace Owens on Facebook. I thought you 'thought for yourself'?'" Well, given almost everyone on here disregards anything said from an opposing viewpoint, it makes sense to listen to the views of someone who has experience of being a black American in the US. But you STILL ignore it. Do the left ever listen to anyone with opposing views? So how about this chap: https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1268 ... 34279.html ? Some very insightful numbers and strong points in there. The most astounding being that, when you break it down, 50% of ALL murders in the US are committed by 3.5% of the population: black men aged 15-40.

Well luckily over here we’ve now got Tommy Robinson trying to whip up “protesters” to “protest” against the protesters who are protesting against racism.

This is where your views are not a true reflection of the situation. Here the police are engaged to keep law an order, in the states the police are engaged in prevent anarchy - there is a very subtle difference in attitude. The police in the states are far more aggressive than they are here.

One thing that is worth considering - why is that whenever you have these protests in the states in nearly always leads to looting - but not random looting targeted looting of branded product? The cameras might be deceiving but there does appear to mostly black males/females involved?

Quote: Sal Paradise "This is where your views are not a true reflection of the situation. Here the police are engaged to keep law an order, in the states the police are engaged in prevent anarchy - there is a very subtle difference in attitude. The police in the states are far more aggressive than they are here. One thing that is worth considering - why is that whenever you have these protests in the states in nearly always leads to looting - but not random looting targeted looting of branded product? The cameras might be deceiving but there does appear to mostly black males/females involved?'" You’ve seen the infamous examples of black people ‘looting’ and white people ‘rescuing their possessions’ in New Orleans after Hurricane Katrina? When you live in a fundamentally divided society, these sort of comparisons aren’t really sensible. People are more likely to be law abiding if they feel like they have a meaningful stake in society, irrespective of their melanin levels. How would we feel about some cosseted representative of the Home Counties wondering out loud about the level of crime and educational performance and tax contribution in/from Wigan or Hull, and whether ‘these people’, at a whole population level, are just inherently aggressive, dishonest, stupid and bring it on themselves? Race is a social-cultural construct, but that isn’t even consistently reflected in science. In Genetics, while you do get studies of specific ethnic groups (e.g. Ashkenazi Jews or the Yoruba) race is generally (I do hope somebody highlights the exception of James Watson ) seen as being too crude to be even remotely useful. However, I read a lot of medical reports nowadays and the ethnic demographics of patients are typically presented as race - usually along the lines of black, Caucasian, Asian and Hispanic in US studies. While it is a convenient short hand, it doesn’t seem a very useful, being so imprecise. And yet it is used, occasionally, in treatment decisions and even approvals of medicines: e.g. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1687161/

Quote: Sal Paradise "This is where your views are not a true reflection of the situation. Here the police are engaged to keep law an order, in the states the police are engaged in prevent anarchy - there is a very subtle difference in attitude. The police in the states are far more aggressive than they are here. One thing that is worth considering - why is that whenever you have these protests in the states in nearly always leads to looting - but not random looting targeted looting of branded product? The cameras might be deceiving but there does appear to mostly black males/females involved?'" You’ve seen the infamous examples of black people ‘looting’ and white people ‘rescuing their possessions’ in New Orleans after Hurricane Katrina? When you live in a fundamentally divided society, these sort of comparisons aren’t really sensible. People are more likely to be law abiding if they feel like they have a meaningful stake in society, irrespective of their melanin levels. How would we feel about some cosseted representative of the Home Counties wondering out loud about the level of crime and educational performance and tax contribution in/from Wigan or Hull, and whether ‘these people’, at a whole population level, are just inherently aggressive, dishonest, stupid and bring it on themselves? Race is a social-cultural construct, but that isn’t even consistently reflected in science. In Genetics, while you do get studies of specific ethnic groups (e.g. Ashkenazi Jews or the Yoruba) race is generally (I do hope somebody highlights the exception of James Watson ) seen as being too crude to be even remotely useful. However, I read a lot of medical reports nowadays and the ethnic demographics of patients are typically presented as race - usually along the lines of black, Caucasian, Asian and Hispanic in US studies. While it is a convenient short hand, it doesn’t seem a very useful, being so imprecise. And yet it is used, occasionally, in treatment decisions and even approvals of medicines: e.g. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1687161/

Are these serious posts or are you just trying to ‘trigger’ us? I’m not sure the latter would be in very good taste.

Cronus - this mindset that you’ve never come across... you’ve just gone on a massive gammon box-ticking exercise. I know you like to see yourself as a free-thinker and bristle at being stereotyped, but you make it helluva hard for us to play along sometimes. I’m at least happy to acknowledge I’m predictable. How can you be regularly tripping over copies of Mein Kampf and have never encountered these attitudes? Not even because reading Mein Kampf increases your ‘not a racist’ insurance premium, but because, in my experience, it isn’t a book many people own, whereas casual, lazy gammony racism is close to as prevalent as reflexive snowflakey apologism.

I like the ‘cannot avoid the facts’ and the ‘facts speak for themselves’ rhetoric. I don’t know where to start with that, I’m so spoiled for choice. I’ll have a ponder.

Anyway, go on then, if cultural, historical and current racism is not a significant factor what do you guys think are the underlying issues? I know I may regret this.

WTF is the Mein Kampf lecture? I don't own it. I read it once. It's not a big deal and the only indicator on my personality is that I though it might be interesting (it wasn't).

If you're' 'triggered' by my post, you've got issues. I've laid out my argument and identified some underlying issues, with supporting stats. You instantly dismiss it as a "massive gammon box-ticking exercise", presumably because you've bought into the BLM/white oppression rhetoric and I haven't. But here's the thing - facts aren't rhetoric. It's patently clear black communities do far more damage to themselves than whites and there is evidence to support that. It's also patently clear that white cops aren't slaughtering innocent unarmed blacks en masse. Far from it. Why aren't BLM marching against the gangs peddling drugs that do so much more damage in so many more ways? Where's the BLM outrage there?

Why don't you tell me why the average black person from a deprived neighbourhood might find it difficult to advance themselves? Is there a white person turning them away? Are white cops likely to kill them? Are companies advertising for 'whites only'? Are there no equality laws in the US? Are the teachers all white and therefore by BLM logic, racist? Do the schools only take whites? Instead, why is it we see people of all colours and creeds across all political levels across the US, and succeeding in the workplace? I thought they were all oppressed?

Or is it more likely that being born that a run-down community rife with casual drug use, low-level criminality, unemployment, gang influence, etc is a terrible starting point? Could it be that the majority not having a father figure is an influence? Could it be they find themselves in a community that holds them back and drags them into a destructive lifestyle? Could it be they feel it's not worth trying before even giving it a chance? Could peer pressure drag them out of education? Could peer pressure drag them into criminality? It's a self-perpetuating cycle, as I've already said, and there is no easy solution - that doesn't make it 'their fault', although breaking this cycle has proven hugely difficult to any significant degree. But white oppression is not doing this. There are thousands of tales of kids growing up in places such as Compton and experiencing precisely these circumstances and this cycle - more autobiographical books and films that I care to mention. Even frickin 'Boyz n the Hood' is based on John Singleton's youth and battle to overcome and escape gang culture.

I'm all for eliminating racism. But I won't support a racist anti-white movement like BLM that advocates violence and destruction on the streets. Skin colour means nothing to me, never has. I assess someone by their personality. If you're a dick, you're a dick. That's why I agree with Morgan Freeman - making racism an issue makes racism an issue. Yes, racism exists in many forms and I don't deny there are individual examples that may get in the way, but in general does racism or white oppression stop a black kid in, say, Nottingham or Philadelphia getting anywhere? No.

And I'll reword my earlier reply - you defined your statements in terms of 'snowflake' or 'gammon'. Given they are very detailed statements presumably thought up by you and therefore also defined by your personal definition of 'snowflake' or 'gammon' - there's every reason I haven't come across them in terms of the political leanings you describe. Just because you decide to define your own thoughts in that manner doesn't make it a societal defining statement. Put simply, people across all spectrums have differing views.