FORUMS > The Sin Bin > Miranda et al |
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| Quote: El Barbudo "b) Because, this time, they picked on someone who has friends in the newspaper industry.
'"
It's a lot worse than that.
It's special measures taken against a person BECAUSE they are friends with a journalist who happens to have written an article that particularly displeases them.
I think it was Naomi Klein in the Shock Doctrine video who said that she had a special code printed on her travel documents that basically meant that every time she went through a port or airport she was detained and treated as a potential terrorist.
It's a blatant abuse of power. And it's a blatant abuse of power that they knew would be widely reported on. They just don't care about being seen to abuse power because they seem to be able to get away with it.
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| Quote: JerryChicken "
Thats why its in the news, because some people feel a tad uneasy about how freely governments of all flavours ignore basic rules on privacy and electronic surveillance whilst using the paranoia of terrorism to cloak their activities - we elect and pay for them, we deserve to know at least the basics of what they are doing in our name.'"
The worrying message out of all of this is that any hack who dares to publish anything that doesn't show government's in a particularly great light is suddenly going to find their life made 'difficult', which is the sort of thing you would expect from Cuba or North Korea.
Today, it's a Guardian hack working on the Snowdon story who is stopped at Heathrow. Next week, its a Telegraph journalist who happened to find out about Parlimentary expenses gets held at Dover.
Theresa May has said that those who have a problem with this should "think about what they are condoning". Personally, I think that supporting this action is condoning far worse.
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| Quote: "David Miranda, who was carrying secret CIA files'"
Was he carrying CIA files?
If he was then TBH I think he's utterly stupid, the Guardian journalist Greenwald is a ****ing moron too.
If Miranda was carrying nothing then I am 100% in support of him. If he was carrying CIA files then **** him and **** this non-story.
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| Personally, I think this young man is a bit of a drama queen, but that is of course simply my opinion, and is not based on the iron clad facts as trotted out in previous posts by those confidantes who rightously opine "he is not a terrorist or in anyway connected with terrorism"
I shall now eat my slice of Battenburg with a sense of relief.....
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| Quote: Cronus "This is a man who has released classified and sensitive (possible dangerous) stolen information into the public domain, and he's somehow surprised and outraged by all this? Give me a break.'"
It wasn't Edward Snowden or the Guardian journalist. It was the journalist's partner.
Provided you're happy to be detained when your Mrs does something untoward, I totally agree with your post.
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| rlCan't normally stand this woman but an excellent piece on this *cough* scandal.rl
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| Quote: Chris28 "It wasn't Edward Snowden or the Guardian journalist. It was the journalist's partner.
Provided you're happy to be detained when your Mrs does something untoward, I totally agree with your post.'"
If Miranda was carrying classified files, he was asking to be detained.
Given that Miranda was traveling between Berlin and Rio Di Janeiro WTF was he doing going through Heathrow? Again, he was asking to be detained.
Miranda also works as an assistant to the Guardian journalist, so there isn't the separation which I, for one, first assumed.
My first thought was that this was an outrage and intimidation from the govt. But TBH at the moment it's looking like Miranda has set this up to milk it for all it's worth.
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| Quote: Cronus "rlCan't normally stand this woman but an excellent piece on this *cough* scandal.rl'"
It might be if you ignore the straw men, untruths and a clear and unwavering missing of the point of the stoppage. But I didn't therefore it's another load of ensch bull[is[/ihit
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| Quote: Lord God Jose Mourinho "If Miranda was carrying classified files, he was asking to be detained.
Given that Miranda was traveling between Berlin and Rio Di Janeiro WTF was he doing going through Heathrow? Again, he was asking to be detained.
Miranda also works as an assistant to the Guardian journalist, so there isn't the separation which I, for one, first assumed.
My first thought was that this was an outrage and intimidation from the govt. But TBH at the moment it's looking like Miranda has set this up to milk it for all it's worth.'"
Determine what makes a file classified.
Should all classified files remain so?
Do you trust the government to act honestly and within the law? If they are in breach of the law, do you expect them to declassify files identifying such breaches?
Does is it therefore matter who exposed said breach or how they obtained the information?
Or is this all a case of the government sympathisers living life by the adage of 'ignorance is bliss'?
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| Quote: cod'ead "It might be if you ignore the straw men, untruths and a clear and unwavering missing of the point of the stoppage. But I didn't therefore it's another load of ensch bull[is[/ihit'"
How about, oh wizened sage of the seas, you actually explain your little rant in detail?
Sounds increasingly like Mr Miranda has acted as a mule for his journalistic partner or this Laura Poitras and carried stolen classified material (unwittingly or not - if willingly he's lied to airport security) and has spat his dummy now he's been found out. You can see the bottom lip when he's snapped arriving at Rio.
Don't want to be picked out for detention and questioning? Don't get involved in the first place. Choose to get involved and don't spit your dummy when you're 'picked on'.
The poor cherub was detained for a whole nine hours. Oh the trauma. I'd be more impressed if they bumped him off by shining a light at his limo as he raced through a Paris tunnel.
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| Quote: Lord God Jose Mourinho "Given that Miranda was traveling between Berlin and Rio Di Janeiro WTF was he doing going through Heathrow? Again, he was asking to be detained.'"
Its not scientific but Skyscanner shows no direct flights from Berlin to Rio, so he would have needed to change. He would have remained airside though so not technically in the UK. Who detained him? Do the Met have jurisdiction airside?
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| There are flights to Rio from Amsterdam and Paris.
The cheapest and most frequent flights are BA through London. But why in hell would someone deeply involved in the Snowden case, and indeed carrying classified files received from him, travel through London when it's just as easy to go through Paris? To me they were either completely stupid to go through London, or they did it deliberately because they knew he'd be detained and they wanted the scandal.
I've no idea about the jurisdiction issues.
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| Quote: Chris28 "Its not scientific but Skyscanner shows no direct flights from Berlin to Rio, so he would have needed to change. He would have remained airside though so not technically in the UK. Who detained him? Do the Met have jurisdiction airside?'"
Indeed, though he could easily connect through JFK (bad idea), Heathrow, Amsterdam, Paris, Frankfurt or Madrid onto direct flights. Perhaps the fact the Guardian paid for his flights limited his options?
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| I don't work for the Guardian either, and I'm not a journalist. But I quite fancy a trip to Rio, so I was wondering if the Guardian would pay for my air fares too?
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| Quote: rumpelstiltskin "...my opinion, and is not based on the iron clad facts as trotted out in previous posts by those confidantes who rightously opine "he is not a terrorist or in anyway connected with terrorism"...'"
Paragraph 2(1) of Schedule 7 of the Act saysAn examining officer may question a person to whom this paragraph applies for the purpose of determining whether he appears to be a person falling within section 40(1)(b)[/i
Section 40(1) says“terrorist” means a person who …
(b) is or has been concerned in the commission, preparation or instigation of acts of terrorism.[/i
But paragraph 2(4) gives a bit of wriggle-room to the police to determine (as per 2(1) whether or not the person being questioned appears to be a terrorist ... it says An examining officer may exercise his powers under this paragraph whether or not he has grounds for suspecting that a person falls within section 40(1)(b)[/i.
Bearing in mind that most people stopped for reasons of P2(4) are released within an hour rather than full nine hours allowed, this case does fall outside the norm ... and as Miranda was released without charge ... and as no-one, including the police, has said that there was any suspicion of him being a terrorist ... it does make the case newsworthy and does raise the issue of whether the law is being used/misused.
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