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FORUMS > The Sin Bin > Brexit Anyone ? (part 3)
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Seems a longtime ago but the simple question on the referendum ballot paper was, do you want to remain in the European or leave the European Union. A majority voted to leave the European Union. The treachery of some members of parliament is staggering. They then voted by a large majority to trigger article 50 ,which was the mechanism to leave the EU. Since then it looks like many if them under pressure from the establishment have back tracked.

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Quote: Backwoodsman "Seems a longtime ago but the simple question on the referendum ballot paper was, do you want to remain in the European or leave the European Union. A majority voted to leave the European Union. The treachery of some members of parliament is staggering. They then voted by a large majority to trigger article 50 ,which was the mechanism to leave the EU. Since then it looks like many if them under pressure from the establishment have back tracked.'"


You cant blemae them when Teresa May, rather than listen to ANYONE chose to go it alone and secured a deal that only she is happy with.
Hell, she cant even muster agreement within the cabinet that SHE chose and she just wont accept that it's a crap deal. d040.gif

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Quote: Cronus "And here we have the perfect example of why Brexit is such a dog to get through.

You are utterly convinced in your views of May's deal. You think it's a 'hard' Brexit. You think the 'red lines' are a problem. That's your view. It's not necessarily wrong, however stating it as fact is erroneous.

I don't agree. I think the deal is a 'reasonable' Brexit and will do a job. I think the red lines are exactly what we voted for

Your absolutely right imo, Ive said before that ive not read the detail of Mays deal if someone has then please enlighten me why its so bad I just can't see it. If someone has and can see a massive issue then I would love to know apart from the backstop issue.

Cameron spend over £9 million of tax payers money sending that leaflet to all households (legally I know) giving the Government position as to why we should stay in the EU: The country still voted to leave

We were told time and time again the we would have to leave the customs union and the single market if we leave because part of that would be freedom of movement. The country still voted to leave

The then chancellor said that if we voted to leave the EU, he would have to do an emergency budget. Taxes would have to rise and more spending cuts (the absolutely last thing use needed) Yet, the country still voted to leave.

Yet the people who we voted in on all sides are still trying to fudge it. Some want a soft Norway style which would mean us agreeing to freedom of movement, others want us to just leave with no deal at all. Is mays deal not somewhere in-between which we can all agree to.

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Quote: POSTL " Snip.The country still voted to leave'"

I guess you could balance that with 40 years of xenophobia, racism, lies and hatred from the majority of the MSM.

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Quote: tigertot "I guess you could balance that with 40 years of xenophobia, racism, lies and hatred from the majority of the MSM.'"


Who's the MSM, I assume its something to do with the Brexit topic ?

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Mainstream media

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Listened to David Starkey on the radio .He is an historian and expert on the British parliament . He outlined the fact that the vote from the British people is a mandate or instruction to act out the democratic vote. To ignore that creates a constitutional crisis. Leaving the EU may or may not be a disaster and Teresa May has been a disaster, but the harsh fact remains a majority vote took place and one side won. I have respect for some MPS who are trying to push a bill through parliament to revoke article 50 ,that’s the honest solution. But the majority of the Labour Party will oppose anything in order to bring down the government. It would be ironic if due to intransigence by parliament resulted in us leaving without a deal.

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Quote: Backwoodsman "But the majority of the Labour Party will oppose anything in order to bring down the government. It would be ironic if due to intransigence by parliament resulted in us leaving without a deal.'"


I'm not sure it is the majority. The parliamentary labour party are presently led by its socialist faction at the moment, who I agree, are focused on getting the Conservatives out of office at all costs. But much of the rank and file are centre-left and their priorities are different. I make no comment on the relative merits of the two types.

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Quote: POSTL "Who's the MSM, I assume its something to do with the Brexit topic ?'"

It's who loony lefties like to blame for everything. Basically it's any media they don't agree with 100%.

They conveniently ignore the experiences of people in their day to day lives playing a huge part in shaping their views.

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Quote: Pumpetypump "I'm not sure it is the majority. The parliamentary labour party are presently led by its socialist faction at the moment but much of the rank and file are centre-left. I make no comment on the relative merits of the two types.'"

True, and watching some of the rank and file trot out the party line is often embarrassing. You can see even they don't believe it.

It's also been interesting watching some like that media parasite Lisa Nandy changing her line once she realised her Leave constituents were furious at her for seeking to obstruct Brexit, despite her representing a 64% leave constituency.

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Quote: Cronus "It's who loony lefties like to blame for everything. Basically it's any media they don't agree with 100%.

They conveniently ignore the experiences of people in their day to day lives playing a huge part in shaping their views.'"


I'm not a lefty (although the loony is open to debate), but the vast majority of newspaper sales and associated website hits will be to the Daily Mail and Sun. So it is legitimate to say that anti EU and pro-Brexit rhetoric was far more widely available to the masses than remain. The available reach of the anti-EU message surely can't be denied.

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Quote: Cronus "True, and watching some of the rank and file trot out the party line is often embarrassing.'"


It is uncomfortable I agree, but I give them some credit for having even the pretense of an agreed vision for Brexit (albeit a really rather sketchy and dreadful one). The Tories meanwhile are in open civil war and have no coherent single voice whatsoever.

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Quote: Cronus "And here we have the perfect example of why Brexit is such a dog to get through.

You are utterly convinced in your views of May's deal. You think it's a 'hard' Brexit. You think the 'red lines' are a problem. That's your view. It's not necessarily wrong, however stating it as fact is erroneous.

I don't agree. I think the deal is a 'reasonable' Brexit and will do a job. I think the red lines are exactly what we voted for

I broadly agree with you about the best outcome now on the table. This was always going to be a dog to get through, as you say. While I'm not a huge fan of May's deal, it is the least risky and distasteful way forward at this point, imo. In its favourtoday. They say 'a week is long time in politics', and while a lot has to change, if one domino falls... you never know.

The whole threat of self-immolation to get the EU to 'blink', I read completely differently. It had little-to-no value initially, the EU haven't blinked (both imo, of course), and at this point what more would we ask for anyway? The only request we're allowed now is for a longer extension, and that'd be to go in a defined direction more palatable to them so would hardly be 'blinking'.

If May's deal is voted down again, our options are no deal on the 12th of April or a request for an extension based on a new position that they approve of. With respect, I think you so expect them to blink that you're seeing things that aren't there. We, the UK, are free to choose, but only from those three options. At this stage, narrower options help us - Thank EU. icon_biggrin.gif

Also, I'm a bit tired of the threat of hard right being used to guide us anywhere and force the rest of us to blink. Cuddling up to nutters doesn't seem to be working for May, and I think there's a lesson there. If we have to base our politics from here on, on managing bigoted and fascistic tendencies from the fringes then we're doomed anyway.

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Quote: Cronus "It's who loony lefties like to blame for everything. Basically it's any media they don't agree with 100%.

They conveniently ignore the experiences of people in their day to day lives playing a huge part in shaping their views.'"

And it's right wing nutjobs who pretend it isn't major factor. Well the brighter ones pretend, the average Mail, Express, Sun, Star reader is too thick or myopic to question anything.
Most Brexiteer's views on the EU, forriners & law is based on ignorance not experience. You are perhaps the only exception to that rule on here. The others are just simplistic, one-dimensional nutjobs.
I listened to David Starkey. I watched Turkey's voting for Christmas.

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Quote: Pumpetypump "Mainstream media'"


Thank You icon_surprised.gifops:

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07:05
Newcastle
v
Wests
     Mens Super League XXX-R7
15:00
Huddersfield
v
Catalans
       Championship 2025-R6
15:00
Hunslet
v
Halifax
15:00
Oldham
v
Featherstone
15:00
Widnes
v
Barrow
15:00
York
v
Doncaster
 Thu 17th Apr 2025
     National Rugby League 2024-R7
10:50
Manly
v
St.George
     Mens Super League XXX-R8
20:00
Wakefield
v
Castleford
 Fri 18th Apr 2025
     National Rugby League 2024-R7
07:05
Canterbury
v
Souths
11:00
Dolphins
v
Melbourne
       League One 2025-R6
14:00
Midlands
v
Crusaders
       Championship 2025-R7
15:00
Barrow
v
LondonB
15:00
Batley
v
Hunslet
15:00
Doncaster
v
Sheffield
15:00
Featherstone
v
York
15:00
Halifax
v
Bradford
15:00
Widnes
v
Oldham
       League One 2025-R6
15:00
Dewsbury
v
Newcastle
15:00
Rochdale
v
Swinton
15:00
Workington
v
Whitehaven
18:30
Keighley
v
Goole V
     Mens Super League XXX-R8
20:00
Hull FC
v
Hull KR
20:00
Wigan
v
St.Helens
20:00
Leeds
v
Huddersfield
 Sat 19th Apr 2025
     National Rugby League 2024-R7
08:30
NZ Warriors
v
Brisbane
10:35
Sydney
v
Penrith
     Mens Super League XXX-R8
20:00
Leigh
v
Warrington
20:00
Catalans
v
Salford
 Sun 20th Apr 2025
     National Rugby League 2024-R7
05:00
Gold Coast
v
Canberra
07:05
Newcastle
v
Cronulla
 Mon 21st Apr 2025
     National Rugby League 2024-R7
07:00
Wests
v
Parramatta
 Thu 24th Apr 2025
     National Rugby League 2024-R8
10:50
Brisbane
v
Canterbury
     Mens Super League XXX-R9
20:00
Warrington
v
St.Helens
20:00
Leeds
v
Hull KR
 Fri 25th Apr 2025
     National Rugby League 2024-R8
07:00
Sydney
v
St.George
09:05
NZ Warriors
v
Newcastle
11:10
Melbourne
v
Souths
     Mens Super League XXX-R9
20:00
Salford
v
Leigh
 Sat 26th Apr 2025
     National Rugby League 2024-R8
08:30
NQL Cowboys
v
Gold Coast
10:35
Penrith
v
Manly
     Mens Super League XXX-R9
15:00
Huddersfield
v
Castleford
17:30
Catalans
v
Wakefield
       Championship 2025-R8
18:00
Featherstone
v
Toulouse
 Sun 27th Apr 2025
     National Rugby League 2024-R8
05:00
Canberra
v
Dolphins
07:05
Wests
v
Cronulla
       League One 2025-R7
13:00
Cornwall
v
Keighley
14:30
Crusaders
v
Whitehaven
     Mens Super League XXX-R9
15:00
Hull FC
v
Wigan
       Championship 2025-R8
15:00
Barrow
v
Doncaster
15:00
Halifax
v
LondonB
15:00
Oldham
v
Bradford
15:00
Sheffield
v
Batley
15:00
York
v
Widnes
       League One 2025-R7
15:00
Dewsbury
v
Rochdale
15:00
Newcastle
v
Goole V
15:00
Workington
v
Swinton
 Fri 2nd May 2025
     National Rugby League 2024-R9
09:00
Cronulla
v
Parramatta
11:05
Sydney
v
Dolphins
       League One 2025-R8
20:00
Newcastle
v
Workington
 Sat 3rd May 2025
     National Rugby League 2024-R9
06:00
Souths
v
Newcastle
08:30
NZ Warriors
v
NQL Cowboys
10:45
Wests
v
St.George
     Mens Super League XXX-R10
15:00
Leigh
v
Catalans
       League One 2025-R8
15:00
Rochdale
v
Goole V
       Championship 2025-R9
17:00
LondonB
v
York
     Mens Super League XXX-R10
17:15
Hull KR
v
Salford
       Championship 2025-R9
18:00
Toulouse
v
Halifax
     Mens Super League XXX-R10
19:30
St.Helens
v
Leeds
 Sun 4th May 2025
     National Rugby League 2024-R9
04:50
Gold Coast
v
Canterbury
07:05
Penrith
v
Brisbane
09:25
Melbourne
v
Canberra
     Mens Super League XXX-R10
13:00
Huddersfield
v
Hull FC
       League One 2025-R8
13:00
Cornwall
v
Midlands
       Championship 2025-R9
15:00
Batley
v
Barrow
15:00
Bradford
v
Sheffield
15:00
Doncaster
v
Oldham
15:00
Hunslet
v
Widnes
       League One 2025-R8
15:00
Swinton
v
Crusaders
15:00
Whitehaven
v
Dewsbury
     Mens Super League XXX-R10
15:15
Wigan
v
Warrington
17:30
Castleford
v
Wakefield
 Thu 8th May 2025
     National Rugby League 2024-R10
10:50
Parramatta
v
Dolphins
 Fri 9th May 2025
     National Rugby League 2024-R10
09:00
Newcastle
v
Gold Coast
11:00
Souths
v
Brisbane
 Sat 10th May 2025
     National Rugby League 2024-R10
06:00
Canberra
v
Canterbury
08:30
St.George
v
NZ Warriors
10:35
NQL Cowboys
v
Penrith
       Championship 2025-R10
17:00
Oldham
v
Toulouse
 Sun 11th May 2025
     National Rugby League 2024-R10
05:00
Melbourne
v
Wests
07:05
Manly
v
Cronulla
       League One 2025-R9
14:30
Crusaders
v
Newcastle
       Championship 2025-R10
15:00
Batley
v
Bradford
15:00
Halifax
v
Doncaster
15:00
LondonB
v
Sheffield
15:00
Widnes
v
Featherstone
15:00
York
v
Hunslet
       League One 2025-R9
15:00
Dewsbury
v
Cornwall
15:00
Keighley
v
Workington
15:00
Rochdale
v
Midlands
15:00
Whitehaven
v
Goole V
 Thu 15th May 2025
     Mens Super League XXX-R11
20:00
St.Helens
v
Catalans
 Fri 16th May 2025
     National Rugby League 2024-R11
09:00
Newcastle
v
Parramatta
11:00
Canterbury
v
Sydney
     Mens Super League XXX-R11
20:00
Leeds
v
Hull FC
20:00
Wigan
v
Leigh
 Sat 17th May 2025
     National Rugby League 2024-R11
06:00
Dolphins
v
NZ Warriors
08:30
NQL Cowboys
v
Manly
10:35
Cronulla
v
Melbourne
     Mens Super League XXX-R11
15:00
Hull KR
v
Huddersfield
 Sun 18th May 2025
     National Rugby League 2024-R11
05:00
Brisbane
v
St.George
07:05
Canberra
v
Gold Coast
09:15
Wests
v
Souths
     Mens Super League XXX-R11
15:00
Wakefield
v
Warrington
17:30
Castleford
v
Salford
 Thu 22nd May 2025
     National Rugby League 2024-R12
10:50
Canterbury
v
Dolphins
     Mens Super League XXX-R12
20:00
Leigh
v
Hull FC
 Fri 23rd May 2025
     National Rugby League 2024-R12
11:00
Parramatta
v
Manly
       Championship 2025-R11
19:30
Sheffield
v
Hunslet
     Mens Super League XXX-R12
20:00
Huddersfield
v
St.Helens
20:00
Warrington
v
Hull KR
 Sat 24th May 2025
     National Rugby League 2024-R12
08:30
Penrith
v
Newcastle
10:35
Sydney
v
Cronulla
     Mens Super League XXX-R12
14:30
Castleford
v
Leeds
17:30
Catalans
v
Wigan
       Championship 2025-R11
18:00
Toulouse
v
Barrow
 Sun 25th May 2025
     National Rugby League 2024-R12
07:05
NZ Warriors
v
Canberra
       League One 2025-R10
14:00
Midlands
v
Whitehaven
     Mens Super League XXX-R12
15:00
Wakefield
v
Salford
       Championship 2025-R11
15:00
Bradford
v
Widnes
15:00
Doncaster
v
LondonB
15:00
Featherstone
v
Batley
15:00
Oldham
v
Halifax
       League One 2025-R10
15:00
Keighley
v
Crusaders
15:00
Rochdale
v
Newcastle
15:00
Swinton
v
Cornwall
15:00
Workington
v
Goole V
 Thu 29th May 2025
     Mens Super League XXX-R13
20:00
Huddersfield
v
Leigh
 Fri 30th May 2025
     National Rugby League 2024-R13
11:00
St.George
v
Newcastle
     Mens Super League XXX-R13
20:00
Hull KR
v
St.Helens
20:00
Salford
v
Wigan
 Sat 31st May 2025
     National Rugby League 2024-R13
06:00
Gold Coast
v
Melbourne
08:30
Gold Coast
v
Melbourne
08:30
NQL Cowboys
v
Wests
10:35
Manly
v
Brisbane
     Mens Super League XXX-R13
14:30
Leeds
v
Wakefield
       Championship 2025-R12
17:00
LondonB
v
Widnes
     Mens Super League XXX-R13
17:30
Catalans
v
Hull FC
       Championship 2025-R12
18:00
Batley
v
Toulouse
 Sun 1st Jun 2025
     National Rugby League 2024-R13
05:00
Souths
v
NZ Warriors
07:05
Penrith
v
Parramatta
09:15
Sydney
v
Canberra
       League One 2025-R11
13:00
Cornwall
v
Goole V
14:00
Midlands
v
Swinton
14:30
Crusaders
v
Rochdale
     Mens Super League XXX-R13
15:00
Warrington
v
Castleford
       Championship 2025-R12
15:00
Barrow
v
Featherstone
15:00
Doncaster
v
Bradford
15:00
Hunslet
v
Oldham
15:00
York
v
Sheffield
       League One 2025-R11
15:00
Newcastle
v
Keighley
15:00
Workington
v
Dewsbury
 Thu 5th Jun 2025
     National Rugby League 2024-R14
10:50
Newcastle
v
Manly
 Fri 6th Jun 2025
     National Rugby League 2024-R14
09:00
Melbourne
v
NQL Cowboys
11:00
Dolphins
v
St.George
 Sat 7th Jun 2025
     National Rugby League 2024-R14
07:00
Canterbury
v
Parramatta
08:30
Cronulla
v
NZ Warriors
10:35
Brisbane
v
Gold Coast
 Sun 8th Jun 2025
     National Rugby League 2024-R14
05:00
Canberra
v
Souths
07:05
Wests
v
Penrith
 Thu 12th Jun 2025
     National Rugby League 2024-R15
10:50
Cronulla
v
St.George
 Fri 13th Jun 2025
     National Rugby League 2024-R15
11:00
Gold Coast
v
Manly
       League One 2025-R12
19:00
Dewsbury
v
Goole V
     Mens Super League XXX-R14
20:00
Hull FC
v
Castleford
20:00
Hull KR
v
Catalans
 Sat 14th Jun 2025
     National Rugby League 2024-R15
08:30
Newcastle
v
Sydney
10:35
NQL Cowboys
v
Dolphins
     Mens Super League XXX-R14
15:00
Huddersfield
v
Wigan
17:30
Leeds
v
Warrington
 Sun 15th Jun 2025
     National Rugby League 2024-R15
07:05
Souths
v
Canterbury
     Mens Super League XXX-R14
14:30
Wakefield
v
Leigh
       League One 2025-R12
14:30
Crusaders
v
Midlands
     Mens Super League XXX-R14
15:00
Salford
v
St.Helens
       Championship 2025-R13
15:00
Barrow
v
Sheffield
15:00
Batley
v
Doncaster
15:00
Bradford
v
York
15:00
Featherstone
v
Hunslet
15:00
Widnes
v
Halifax
15:00
Toulouse
v
LondonB
       League One 2025-R12
15:00
Keighley
v
Rochdale
15:00
Swinton
v
Workington
15:00
Whitehaven
v
Cornwall
 Thu 19th Jun 2025
     Mens Super League XXX-R15
20:00
Castleford
v
Hull KR
 Fri 20th Jun 2025
     National Rugby League 2024-R16
11:00
Wests
v
Canberra
       Championship 2025-R14
19:45
Bradford
v
Batley
     Mens Super League XXX-R15
20:00
St.Helens
v
Leeds
20:00
Wakefield
v
Wigan
       Championship 2025-R14
20:00
Featherstone
v
Halifax
ALL SCORES PROVIDED BY RLFANS.COM (SETTINGS)
Matches on TV
Thu 13th Feb
SL
20:00
Wigan-Leigh
Fri 14th Feb
SL
20:00
Hull KR-Castleford
SL
20:00
Catalans-Hull FC
Sat 15th Feb
SL
15:00
Leeds-Wakefield
SL
17:30
St.Helens-Salford
Sun 16th Feb
SL
15:00
Huddersfield-Warrington
Thu 20th Feb
SL
20:00
Wakefield-Hull KR
Fri 21st Feb
SL
20:00
Warrington-Catalans
SL
20:00
Hull FC-Wigan
Sat 22nd Feb
SL
15:00
Salford-Leeds
SL
20:00
Castleford-St.Helens
Sun 23rd Feb
SL
14:30
Leigh-Huddersfield
Fri 28th Feb
SL
20:00
Huddersfield-Hull FC
SL
20:00
Hull KR-Salford
SL
20:00
Leigh-Catalans
Sat 1st Mar
SL
14:30
Wakefield-St.Helens
SL
21:30
Wigan-Warrington
Sun 2nd Mar
SL
15:00
Leeds-Castleford
Thu 6th Mar
SL
20:00
Hull FC-Leigh
Fri 7th Mar
SL
20:00
Castleford-Salford
This is an inplay table and live positions can change.
Mens Betfred Super League XXVIII ROUND : 1
 PLDFADIFFPTS
Wigan 29 768 338 430 48
Hull KR 29 731 344 387 44
Warrington 29 769 351 418 42
Leigh 29 580 442 138 33
Salford 28 556 561 -5 32
St.Helens 28 618 411 207 30
 
Catalans 27 475 427 48 30
Leeds 27 530 488 42 28
Huddersfield 27 468 658 -190 20
Castleford 27 425 735 -310 15
Hull FC 27 328 894 -566 6
LondonB 27 317 916 -599 6
This is an inplay table and live positions can change.
Betfred Championship 2024 ROUND : 1
 PLDFADIFFPTS
Wakefield 27 1032 275 757 52
Toulouse 26 765 388 377 37
Bradford 28 723 420 303 36
York 29 695 501 194 32
Widnes 27 561 502 59 29
Featherstone 27 634 525 109 28
 
Sheffield 26 626 526 100 28
Doncaster 26 498 619 -121 25
Halifax 26 509 650 -141 22
Batley 26 422 591 -169 22
Swinton 28 484 676 -192 20
Barrow 25 442 720 -278 19
Whitehaven 25 437 826 -389 18
Dewsbury 27 348 879 -531 4
Hunslet 1 6 10 -4 0
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