Don't you get it though?
You're supposed to be hidden behind your sofa waiting for the dark-faces to go past before you can come out of your house.
They might bomb you you know.
Or take your job.
Or steal your money.

You're not supposed to be friendly with "them".

Don't interrupt, we're waiting an incoming from Dita's to explain why the idea of people living happily side by side is "completely false", when we are doing precisely that.

I do hope I haven't overloaded Dita's knee-jerk circuits, maybe he can't get close enough to the desk, that may be the reason for the silence.

Maybe you should ask why there are no ethnics placed by Bradford council on estates such as Ravenscliffe? Or why the lack of harmony in Page Hall in Sheffield? You might be the only white man in Lidget Green, hence the reason it works. Could I suggest if the split were nearer 50/50 then tensions might be more stretched.

Well, maybe because Bradford Council transferred all its council houses to Incommunities over a decade ago?

A quick search on 192.com seems to show literally hundreds of (just for example) Khans and Hussains in BD10

Another quick search on a random postcode in Ravenscliffe shows census passport information as followsPassport(s) Held
United Kingdom 66
Republic of Ireland 2
Europe (including European Union) 73
African Countries 14
Middle East or Asia 19
North America or Caribbean 1
Central America 1
South America 0
Oceania
(Australia, New Zealand, Indonesia and nearby islands)
1
None 24'"

I live in a 'multicultural' area, and actual integration is almost nil. There are swathes of predominantly white locals, several large communities of mainly Pakistani origin and a large and growing community of Eastern Europeans. For the most part they simply do not mix to any great degree, even when living side by side.

Whether that's down to cultural differences I don't know. But the fact is the immigrant communities are extremely insular, while the local indigenous population gets on with the usual pastimes of shopping, drinking, playing sports, etc. It's a strange situation. In my gym I often hear nothing but Urdu or Polish (I assume!), similarly in my nearest supermarket I'm often in the minority as a white native English speaker. However, go to the sports clubs, or out into the bars, pubs and restaurants, or round many of the shops or events such as music festivals and you will hear nothing but English accents.

The only racial tensions to speak of are normally between youngsters, or died in the wool locals. Points of disquiet are the local drugs scene which has been almost entirely taken over by young Pakistani men who tear the streets up in high-powered cars, often distributing via the taxi firms run by predominantly Pakistani men. A Bangladeshi driver told me he was being leaned on to distribute but wanted to stay out of it. At least one baby of Pakistani origin has been found dead, dumped in someone's garden, a matter of 'honour'. I would describe the situation as 'underlying friction', although seeing as the communities don't really mix there's not actually that much bother.

I'm sure someone will tell me I'm making it all up or imagining it. You're welcome to come and see for yourself.

I wonder if FA recalls the race riots in Bradford about 12 or so years ago?

As I recall one incident, there was a predominately white Working Mans Club being bricked by an Asian mob, prior to them attempting to set fire to it with the terrified members trapped inside.

Not that someone so grand as FA would possibly spend time in such an establishment.....

You see the idea of "integration" is to me just plain wrong. I know enough about Muslims to know that they view much of what I regard as normal activity as "un-Islamic" and a commonly held view is that time spent on socialising and entertainment may be a waste of time and frowned upon.

In the case of women, we have probably one of the biggest populations of the stricter flavours of Islam in Bradford than in many places in the world - Pakistan included - judging by the large number of females who now are seen in full black veil including face.

I am broadly speaking aware that in some sections of their religion, them even speaking to a non-family male is not permitted and as I have no way of knowing, my default position is not to engage with such women in any way unless they speak to me. I would agree that the Muslim religion does very much tend to "insular", therefore, because of restrictions on women to varying degrees, and because of restrictions on what is "islamic" behaviour for all muslims. What I don't understand is how successive governments failed to seemingly grasp that Islam IS different, and because it provides a code on all aspects of its adherents' lives, the sort of "integration" that you talk about in terms of drinking, playing games etc. was never going to happen as muslims don't see watering down their religious requirements as optional. (And yes i do know that there are very many and varied versions and interpretations of what Islam actually says, and yes I do know that as many muslims commit crimes, behave antisocially etc as those of any other religion or none). As for drugs, of course one major reason the Pakistani communities are so involved is where the drugs they sell originate from. However each area of every city and town in the land has its own drug supply infrastructures and the fact that there are many Pakistani drug dealers in a mainly pakistani area is no shock, but there are major drug dealers both locally and across the country from all sorts of ethnicities as I'm sure you know.

I am vehemently anti-religion, and hate the idea of the veil in particular, I also think that these women and girls must in many cases have been pressurised and brainwashed into conforming into their lifestyle but then haven't we all, and it is not for me to tell such a woman how to live her life, nor will anyone ever stop parents indoctrinating their children into whatever religion they choose if that is what they choose to do so it is an immutable fact of life that I have to accept.

But no, I don't spend a lot of time (well, in fact pretty much no time at all) in other neighbour's houses, we all just live our lives and rub along like probably most city dwellers everywhere. It ain't Wisteria Lane with coffee morning rotas, we nod and say hello if meeting in the street, as I said, we look out for each other and where required on occasions offer mutual help, but in the main I don't have much contact with any of them, and the same is for white neighbours as those whose skin is of any other pigmentation.

So I do't believe in this silly idea of "integration" if by that is meant everybody slowly turning into some weird meld of each other and having weekly street parties.

I am also not under any delusion that I "mix" in any real sense. Even if I go to, say, a concert where there may be thousands of people, while I may strike up a conversation or two, the huge majority won't encounter me, nor I them. Same in a pub or club, I'd naturally talk to the regulars that I know, and the people I'm with, but the groups on the next tables or stood nearby may be there all night without exchanging any words with my group. Is this or is this not "integration"?

So no, I don't think you're "making it up" or "imagining it" at all. Your account is much more representative of how people actually choose to live their lives than the rosy Utopia probably imagined by people like Camoron with quaint cottages in the Cotswolds and no idea what they are talking about. What I am saying is that despite my street being a mix of English, Poles, Romanians, Indians, Pakistanis etc. we all rub along just fine, there is no bother, and how they carry on doesn't affect the way I carry on.

I have been a member of that club for several decades and was in the club not 60 minutes before it was burned down, and I knew personally all the people trapped in it.

The club was not burned down "by an Asian mob", but by 47 year old car wash manager and father of 6 Mohammed Ilyas. I watched him doing it on the CCTV, which survived the blaze, but don't let me stop your pig ignorant speculation.

Didums. rlsome more pig ignorant speculation?rl

Obviously, as you were so rudely interrupted during the meat raffle draw by a solitary Asian, we can only assume that the Media Reports about a hundred strong group of Asians rampaging through the Town Centre never happened?

And the rather distraught Lady from the club who at the end of the clip claimed, "THEY were going to burn us alive," was also a tad overwrought?

That number just seems so tiny.

The report briefly refers to the club being burned down which everyone knows it was. Your link is so far as I can see completely pointless. As for "didums", I'm not sure what you are trying to do there other than reduce a serious discussion to childish levels.


I already said I wasn't in the club at the time, but I already knew your powers of comprehension are limited. The activities of the club were not interrupted by "a solitary Asian" as you weirdly believe but by being smack in the middle of one of the most serious civil disturbances this country has seen. Is the distinction hard for you to grasp?



If lunatic assumptions are your thing, certainly.

It does, by the time the man who burned down the club was convicted, the estimate had gone up to £27m. It is probably a good estimate, as the way it works is the police pay for all the damage, so by that stage a reasonable tally would have been available.

Did they not completely destroy a BMW garage and all the new cars in it?

"Everybody Knows" A rather sweeping generalisation don't you think? The level of debate to be heard in a school playground perhaps? if you take the time to actually read my OP, I prefaced it with the words "As I recall" which should indicate that I was indeed speculating about a written Media article, and not offering up some definitive proof that it was indeed your club, rather than a pub. I should of course, have simply said a licensed premises, but that would have denied you the chance to exhibit your rather strange provincial and pedantic mindset.



I think you'll find I described the club as being attacked by an Asian mob and then set on fire. Something you described in your delightful way as "pig ignorant speculation." An unfortunate reference given the ethnicity of the rioters. However, as you had already legged it, leaving all those members you claim to know personally to their fate, one wonders does one not, how you could assert with any authority, that in one post it was simply the actions of a solitary Asian male, despite the accusations being made by that Lady who remained trapped in the Club, "THEY", note the plural, "tried to burn us out," and in your next post above, agree that it was in the middle of the worst racial rioting in Yorkshire.
You appear, not for the first time on these boards, to be a tad confused.

No, I think you'll find you saidthem attempting to set fire to it '"