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| I guess the golden thread running through all this is that maybe, just maybe, the fact that there is absolutely no Brexit available that is better than our current arrangement, that the majority of MP's are in fact acting in the best interests of the country by preventing it? A bit like when I stop my dear old Nan from driving her car, because although it offers her independence and the ability to socialise, it also risks killing her or other people.
The real villains here are the people who promised sunlit uplands, either mendaciously because they knew full well it wasn't possible, or through stupidity because they had no real grasp of what leaving the EU would actually entail. History will not look kindly upon Messrs Johnson, Rees-Mogg, Davis, Fox and Farage - although I'm sure disgraced former Defence Secretary Liam Fox will dine out on his historic trade deals with the Faroe Islands and Lichtenstein for years to come - probably in a double room, at our expense.
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| Quote: bren2k "I guess the golden thread running through all this is that maybe, just maybe, the fact that there is absolutely no Brexit available that is better than our current arrangement, that the majority of MP's are in fact acting in the best interests of the country by preventing it? A bit like when I stop my dear old Nan from driving her car, because although it offers her independence and the ability to socialise, it also risks killing her or other people.
The real villains here are the people who promised sunlit uplands, either mendaciously because they knew full well it wasn't possible, or through stupidity because they had no real grasp of what leaving the EU would actually entail. History will not look kindly upon Messrs Johnson, Rees-Mogg, Davis, Fox and Farage - although I'm sure disgraced former Defence Secretary Liam Fox will dine out on his historic trade deals with the Faroe Islands and Lichtenstein for years to come - probably in a double room, at our expense.'"
best interests of our country?
The people voted, you know, in a democracy, to leave.
MP's are all self serving parasites.
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| Quote: MGarbutt1986 "The people voted, you know, in a democracy, to leave.'"
Some people did aye - but they were like my Nan.
In mental health, there is a thing called the Mental Capacity Act; in basic terms, it means that when someone is incapable of making a decision for themselves, it is lawful for others to make a decision on their behalf, acting in their best interests. It's like that.
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| Quote: MGarbutt1986 "
MP's are all self serving parasites.'"
You are a typical one-dimensional gammon type. Everything is simple in your world. Although I would gladly take out a number of MPs & string from a lamppost by their toes, there are plenty of hardworking MPs who dedicate their lives to the service of others. Even a small handful of Tories. Some also think it is there right to rule over us plebs.
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| Quote: MGarbutt1986 "MP's are all self serving parasites.'"
Some are - plenty aren't, otherwise, if your contention is true, this thing would have sailed through ages ago, right?
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| Quote: bren2k "Some are - plenty aren't, otherwise, if your contention is true, this thing would have sailed through ages ago, right?'"
I'd love to see the list of members interests, how many have shares or positions in UK companies affected.
I voted remain, but this whole thing is a farce.
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| Quote: bren2k "I guess the golden thread running through all this is that maybe, just maybe, the fact that there is absolutely no Brexit available that is better than our current arrangement, that the majority of MP's are in fact acting in the best interests of the country by preventing it? A bit like when I stop my dear old Nan from driving her car, because although it offers her independence and the ability to socialise, it also risks killing her or other people.
The real villains here are the people who promised sunlit uplands, either mendaciously because they knew full well it wasn't possible, or through stupidity because they had no real grasp of what leaving the EU would actually entail. History will not look kindly upon Messrs Johnson, Rees-Mogg, Davis, Fox and Farage - although I'm sure disgraced former Defence Secretary Liam Fox will dine out on his historic trade deals with the Faroe Islands and Lichtenstein for years to come - probably in a double room, at our expense.'"
Ive not read the deal. in its entirety so cannot say either good or bad, although it did seem ok to me.
With regards to your second Paragraph, I disagree. If we do now not leave the EU, History will not look kindly on ANY of the current bunch in the commons at the moment. They asked the British public were given a mandate and failed. They have got a nice little pay rise though.
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| Quote: POSTL "Ive not read the deal. in its entirety so cannot say either good or bad, although it did seem ok to me.
With regards to your second Paragraph, I disagree. If we do now not leave the EU, History will not look kindly on ANY of the current bunch in the commons at the moment. They asked the British public were given a mandate and failed. They have got a nice little pay rise though.
It's OK, Komrade Corbyn will win through, the IRA will be back, Dame dipstick abbott will repatriate anyone who wants to come back. It will all come out smelling of roses.
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| Quote: POSTL "With regards to your second Paragraph, I disagree. If we do now not leave the EU, History will not look kindly on ANY of the current bunch in the commons at the moment. They asked the British public were given a mandate and failed. They have got a nice little pay rise though.
That was rather my point - maybe enough of them don't care about that, and just want to save the UK from itself?
Wildly optimistic I know - and difficult to pinpoint given the dozens of different viewpoints swirling round the HoC - but the one thing there is a majority for is to remain in the EU.
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| Quote: bren2k "That was rather my point - maybe enough of them don't care about that, and just want to save the UK from itself?
Wildly optimistic I know - and difficult to pinpoint given the dozens of different viewpoints swirling round the HoC - but the one thing there is a majority for is to remain in the EU.'"
But the MAJORITY voted leave, MP's are in no place, lawfully, to defy democracy.
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| Quote: MGarbutt1986 "But the MAJORITY voted leave, MP's are in no place, lawfully, to defy democracy.'"
Except they are - and they are aided and abetted by the fact that 'Leave' was in no way clearly defined. As I said weeks ago, it would be perfectly legitimate to engineer the softest of soft departures, then go back to their Leave voting constituents and say "see - I done a Brexit" - and no one could legitimately complain; and I suspect that the PM would have done exactly that, had she not decided to keep her party together over the national interest.
It's far too simplistic to rail against the whole political class - many of whom are, I'm sure, doing their best to minimise the damage caused by a few of their colleagues; mostly tax-dodging millionaires like, but I'm sure that's just a coincidence.
Don't despair - Mr Speaker will save us all, then go into hiding to avoid the Daily Mail incited lynch mob.
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| Shall we play a game of guess the newspaper this morning from the headlines:
1. Berc-oh.
2. The Brexit destroyer.
3. Smirk that says — Brexit be damned.
4. Women forced to sell sex in benefits crisis. (at least they deviated from brexit)
5. May’s Brexit hits block as Bercow rules out third vote on same deal.
6. Brexplosion.
7. Time to go, dozens of MPs tell May.
8. 400-year-old rule blocks Brexit vote 3.
9. “A major constitutional crisis.”
10. Brexit chaos as speaker stops May in her tracks.
11. Bercow’s hammer blow for May’s Brexit deal.
12. B*ll*cks to Bercow.
13. Bercow is sabotaging Brexit deal, says No. 10.
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| Quote: Pumpetypump "8. 400-year-old rule blocks Brexit vote 3.'"
I like this one - I'm on trial for murder next week, which I believe has been prohibited by law for quite some time too - maybe I can argue that it should no longer be valid?
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| Quote: bren2k "I like this one - I'm on trial for murder next week, which I believe has been prohibited by law for quite some time too - maybe I can argue that it should no longer be valid?'"
Ah. John Bercow. The man who broke Parliamentary convention in January when allowing a vote in favour of the Remain agenda, and who said he was 'going against precedent...precedent should sometimes be ignored, since otherwise manifestly nothing would ever change.'
Then digs up 400 year old precedent to support his agenda.
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| Quote: Cronus "Ah. John Bercow. The man who broke Parliamentary convention in January when allowing a vote in favour of the Remain agenda, and who said he was 'going against precedent...precedent should sometimes be ignored, since otherwise manifestly nothing would ever change.'
Then digs up 400 year old precedent to support his agenda.
Which is irrelevant in this instance. May has put the same deal forward twice now and it’s been voted down. If May can put the same deal forward 3 times for a vote to try and get a different result why can’t the public be asked their opinion for a second time?
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