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Quote: Scarlet Pimpernell "If you can find a pub that is still open after 9 years of Conservative rule.'"


Hundreds in Leeds - the city is full of bars and pubs, its like you can go 50 yards with seeing one - that is despite beer being £6 a pint.

Pubs fail because of a few key factors - smoking ban, cheap off sale alcohol, dinking/driving etc nothing to do with the Conservatives.

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Quote: The Ghost of '99 "Fortunately your rather extreme views on most issues are a long way from the mainstream in British society.'"


So why are the Tories so far ahead in the polls? Perhaps its you that is way off knowing what real people think - perhaps rather than signing of their payroll you need to go out and speak to some of them - but then you would have to stop looking down on them from your lofty perch. icon_biggrin.gif

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Quote: Sal Paradise "So why are the Tories so far ahead in the polls? Perhaps its you that is way off knowing what real people think - perhaps rather than signing of their payroll you need to go out and speak to some of them - but then you would have to stop looking down on them from your lofty perch.
They have a lead in the polls due to their clear "Brexit" policy and the love in from the majority of the media for Boris, coupled with fear of a Corbyn government- propagated by the vast majority of the media.
The truth is that Labour have utterly failed to capitalise on a split ruling party and if we're honest, this does fall on Corbyn's shoulders.

However, the Tories should not be forgiven for their austerity program, which has squeezed the life from some of those at the bottom of the pile and their policies continue to massively affect the very poorest people in the country, something that they and their supporters should be ashamed of.
Unfortunately, the Tory ethos of putting personal interest above collective success continues unabated.

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Quote: wrencat1873 "They have a lead in the polls due to their clear "Brexit" policy and the love in from the majority of the media for Boris, coupled with fear of a Corbyn government- propagated by the vast majority of the media.
The truth is that Labour have utterly failed to capitalise on a split ruling party and if we're honest, this does fall on Corbyn's shoulders.

However, the Tories should not be forgiven for their austerity program, which has squeezed the life from some of those at the bottom of the pile and their policies continue to massively affect the very poorest people in the country, something that they and their supporters should be ashamed of.
Unfortunately, the Tory ethos of putting personal interest above collective success continues unabated.'"


Haven't the Tories shown a significant increase in the national minimum wage £2/hr - a 33% increase. Combine that with increases in personal allowances of £6k - surely these policies positively impact the poorly paid.

So given the financial situation the Tories inherited what do you think they should have done?

The idea that Corbyn is negatively impacted by the press needs to be offset by the strength of Labour with social media - who actually buys a newspaper these days? Far more people read/use Twitter so its just a spurious excuse because we don't want the state to own all our businesses and Labour's message simply doesn't stack up to scrutiny.

McDonald showed the angry side of Labour on Marr today - lost his cool and the argument.

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Quote: Sal Paradise "Haven't the Tories shown a significant increase in the national minimum wage £2/hr - a 33% increase. Combine that with increases in personal allowances of £6k - surely these policies positively impact the poorly paid.

So given the financial situation the Tories inherited what do you think they should have done?

The idea that Corbyn is negatively impacted by the press needs to be offset by the strength of Labour with social media - who actually buys a newspaper these days? Far more people read/use Twitter so its just a spurious excuse because we don't want the state to own all our businesses and Labour's message simply doesn't stack up to scrutiny.

McDonald showed the angry side of Labour on Marr today - lost his cool and the argument.'"


I agree with the first 2 points that you make, which are offset by the younger workers and the dreaded zero hours contracts - £2 and hour more, if you lose 3 or 4 hours of work may still be a reduction ?? and of course you dont mention those who, for a multitude of reasons, cant work and should we gloss over child poverty, crime and massive increase in foodbanks, all as a direct result of austerity cuts d040.gif

And, just to show the utter contempt that the Tories have for the poorest people in the country, their candidate for Broxstowe, tells people, rather than use foodbanks, they should take out payday loans a026.gif

https://universalcreditsuffer.com/2019/ ... yday-loan/

As long as his conscience is clear d040.gif

Is this who we should vote in on Thursday ??
Quote: Sal Paradise "Haven't the Tories shown a significant increase in the national minimum wage £2/hr - a 33% increase. Combine that with increases in personal allowances of £6k - surely these policies positively impact the poorly paid.

So given the financial situation the Tories inherited what do you think they should have done?

The idea that Corbyn is negatively impacted by the press needs to be offset by the strength of Labour with social media - who actually buys a newspaper these days? Far more people read/use Twitter so its just a spurious excuse because we don't want the state to own all our businesses and Labour's message simply doesn't stack up to scrutiny.

McDonald showed the angry side of Labour on Marr today - lost his cool and the argument.'"


I agree with the first 2 points that you make, which are offset by the younger workers and the dreaded zero hours contracts - £2 and hour more, if you lose 3 or 4 hours of work may still be a reduction ?? and of course you dont mention those who, for a multitude of reasons, cant work and should we gloss over child poverty, crime and massive increase in foodbanks, all as a direct result of austerity cuts d040.gif

And, just to show the utter contempt that the Tories have for the poorest people in the country, their candidate for Broxstowe, tells people, rather than use foodbanks, they should take out payday loans a026.gif

https://universalcreditsuffer.com/2019/ ... yday-loan/

As long as his conscience is clear d040.gif

Is this who we should vote in on Thursday ??


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On the issue of austerity and public finances and said it was a myth that the Conservatives would not invest as much in public services as Labour.

The financial crisis hit in 2008 and tax receipts crumbled and the budget deficit jumped up to 9.9 per cent of GDP. At this point the Tories saw electoral advantage in making the deficit their key campaigning point and so they started to say Labour had been spending too much for years and that's why the public finances were such a mess. It would have been more credible if in 2007, they had made a big deal about the 2.6 per cent deficit and said we need this to be zero so we would reduce spending, but when you campaign on 'we will match Labour's spending' and then subsequently claim Labour's spending was too high, you can see this was based on political opportunism not economics.

As for how to reduce a budget deficit

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Quote: Sal Paradise "And how many of these nurses earning £23k live in accommodation that costs £926p/m - its the same as how many people will actually gain the whole £6,700 Labour is promising?

So what constitutes poverty?'"

Well nearly all nurses starting out will be renting as they are very unlikely to own property so the vast majority will be paying somewhere close to the national average rent.

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Quote: Sal Paradise "So why are the Tories so far ahead in the polls? Perhaps its you that is way off knowing what real people think - perhaps rather than signing of their payroll you need to go out and speak to some of them - but then you would have to stop looking down on them from your lofty perch. Well for starters I was referring to your views not those of the Conservative party. Well not very many of your views have made it into their manifesto - what they'll actually do is open to question of course as I imagine many of them actually harbour opinions that are rather closer to the ones you express.

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Quote: Sir Kevin Sinfield "Well nearly all nurses starting out will be renting as they are very unlikely to own property so the vast majority will be paying somewhere close to the national average rent.'"


Most when they start will be living in shared accommodation as they would do at university or even in halls if their degree allows.

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Quote: Sal Paradise "Most when they start will be living in shared accommodation as they would do at university or even in halls if their degree allows.'"


That's alright then, why would or should they ever want their own place d040.gif
We could pay them a bit less, cos they're only nurses - not like proper doctors ??

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Quote: wrencat1873 "I agree with the first 2 points that you make, which are offset by the younger workers and the dreaded zero hours contracts - £2 and hour more, if you lose 3 or 4 hours of work may still be a reduction ?? and of course you dont mention those who, for a multitude of reasons, cant work and should we gloss over child poverty, crime and massive increase in foodbanks, all as a direct result of austerity cuts
I agree with you about those that can't work - the concept of universal credit is a good idea the application by the Tories has been cruel and heartless - yes I get the six weeks if you just walk out on a job but in the real world you would be paid notice and holiday pay to cushion the blow. Six weeks with no money I don't agree with.

Crime is a society issue - people's attitude to authority has shifted significantly - would having more police on the streets sort out the gang issues in London, domestic abuse, widespread drug availability etc. no it wont - they might catch more of us speeding.

I ask again what is considered poverty and realistically how many people does that cover - if we say food banks gave out 5m parcels and we say there are 30m people buying food every week that represents .03% yes it should not happen and if the aforementioned benefit system worked properly then the number would be far less - but there will always be people who for whatever reason get into financial strive so you will never fully eradicate it - same goes for homelessness. There are homeless people in every major city in the western world.

You call out the Tories but you could equally call out Labour on a whole area of issues - racism being one.

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Quote: Sal Paradise "I agree with you about those that can't work - the concept of universal credit is a good idea the application by the Tories has been cruel and heartless - yes I get the six weeks if you just walk out on a job but in the real world you would be paid notice and holiday pay to cushion the blow. Six weeks with no money I don't agree with.
'"


If you really want to encourage people in to work then the benefits system needs to incentivise people who come out of unemployment to take insecure jobs and guarantee an 'income floor' for a certain period which guarantees that they will be better off than sitting on benefits.

So if you take low-paid part-time, variable hours work, the benefits system should smooth your income and avoid income gaps.

The big problem with the current system is because of the gaps in receiving payments when your status changes, people can't risk it because they don't have a cushion of savings to smooth cash flow problems.

There has been a lot of good thinking on welfare reform and incentive design from both left and right wing policy groups but the UC reforms have been undermined by the fact the government has targeted reducing the overall benefits bill, which means they look to chip away wherever they can, rather than thinking strategically how best to create a system that incentivises work.

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Quote: wrencat1873 "That's alright then, why would or should they ever want their own place
Because they get a partner and together they want to build a future together and renting is dead money where its council property or a private landlord. Anybody with half a brain can see that.

Who has suggested paying nurses less - certainly not me, both my parents were SRN's in their youth - father left to work for a pharmaceutical company because in the 60s he couldn't support his family on the monies Labour under Wilson were prepared to pay.

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Quote: Sal Paradise "Because they get a partner and together they want to build a future together and renting is dead money where its council property or a private landlord. Anybody with half a brain can see that.

Who has suggested paying nurses less - certainly not me, both my parents were SRN's in their youth - father left to work for a pharmaceutical company because in the 60s he couldn't support his family on the monies Labour under Wilson were prepared to pay.'"


With deposits on property so prohibitive, renting is the only option for younger people, unless they are very well paid or, they have parents who can "help".

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Quote: wrencat1873 "With deposits on property so prohibitive, renting is the only option for younger people, unless they are very well paid or, they have parents who can "help".'"


Perhaps as parents that is what we should be doing - rather than passing on wealth when your kids don't really need it giving it them when they do. Maybe less spent on lavish weddings and more contributed towards deposits would be beneficial?

My estate has 110 houses cheapest £225k - the average inhabitant is well under 30 - so to say young people can't get on the property ladder is not the case, if they want a house it needs to be a priority - blowing £200 on a typical Saturday night out doesn't help.

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Swinton
 Fri 2nd May 2025
       League One 2025-R8
20:00
Newcastle
v
Workington
 Sat 3rd May 2025
     Mens Super League XXX-R10
15:00
Leigh
v
Catalans
       League One 2025-R8
15:00
Rochdale
v
Goole V
     Mens Super League XXX-R10
17:15
Hull KR
v
Salford
19:30
St.Helens
v
Leeds
 Sun 4th May 2025
     Mens Super League XXX-R10
13:00
Huddersfield
v
Hull FC
       League One 2025-R8
13:00
Cornwall
v
Midlands
15:00
Swinton
v
Crusaders
15:00
Whitehaven
v
Dewsbury
     Mens Super League XXX-R10
15:15
Wigan
v
Warrington
17:30
Castleford
v
Wakefield
 Sun 11th May 2025
       League One 2025-R9
14:30
Crusaders
v
Newcastle
15:00
Dewsbury
v
Cornwall
15:00
Keighley
v
Workington
15:00
Rochdale
v
Midlands
15:00
Whitehaven
v
Goole V
 Thu 15th May 2025
     Mens Super League XXX-R11
20:00
St.Helens
v
Catalans
 Fri 16th May 2025
     Mens Super League XXX-R11
20:00
Leeds
v
Hull FC
20:00
Wigan
v
Leigh
 Sat 17th May 2025
     Mens Super League XXX-R11
15:00
Hull KR
v
Huddersfield
 Sun 18th May 2025
     Mens Super League XXX-R11
15:00
Wakefield
v
Warrington
17:30
Castleford
v
Salford
 Thu 22nd May 2025
     Mens Super League XXX-R12
20:00
Leigh
v
Hull FC
 Fri 23rd May 2025
     Mens Super League XXX-R12
20:00
Huddersfield
v
St.Helens
20:00
Warrington
v
Hull KR
 Sat 24th May 2025
     Mens Super League XXX-R12
14:30
Castleford
v
Leeds
17:30
Catalans
v
Wigan
 Sun 25th May 2025
       League One 2025-R10
14:00
Midlands
v
Whitehaven
     Mens Super League XXX-R12
15:00
Wakefield
v
Salford
       League One 2025-R10
15:00
Keighley
v
Crusaders
15:00
Rochdale
v
Newcastle
15:00
Swinton
v
Cornwall
15:00
Workington
v
Goole V
 Thu 29th May 2025
     Mens Super League XXX-R13
20:00
Huddersfield
v
Leigh
 Fri 30th May 2025
     Mens Super League XXX-R13
20:00
Hull KR
v
St.Helens
20:00
Salford
v
Wigan
 Sat 31st May 2025
     Mens Super League XXX-R13
14:30
Leeds
v
Wakefield
17:30
Catalans
v
Hull FC
 Sun 1st Jun 2025
       League One 2025-R11
13:00
Cornwall
v
Goole V
14:00
Midlands
v
Swinton
14:30
Crusaders
v
Rochdale
     Mens Super League XXX-R13
15:00
Warrington
v
Castleford
       League One 2025-R11
15:00
Newcastle
v
Keighley
15:00
Workington
v
Dewsbury
 Fri 13th Jun 2025
       League One 2025-R12
19:00
Dewsbury
v
Goole V
     Mens Super League XXX-R14
20:00
Hull FC
v
Castleford
20:00
Hull KR
v
Catalans
 Sat 14th Jun 2025
     Mens Super League XXX-R14
15:00
Huddersfield
v
Wigan
17:30
Leeds
v
Warrington
 Sun 15th Jun 2025
     Mens Super League XXX-R14
14:30
Wakefield
v
Leigh
       League One 2025-R12
14:30
Crusaders
v
Midlands
     Mens Super League XXX-R14
15:00
Salford
v
St.Helens
       League One 2025-R12
15:00
Keighley
v
Rochdale
15:00
Swinton
v
Workington
15:00
Whitehaven
v
Cornwall
ALL SCORES PROVIDED BY RLFANS.COM (SETTINGS)
Matches on TV
Thu 13th Feb
SL
20:00
Wigan-Leigh
Fri 14th Feb
SL
20:00
Hull KR-Castleford
SL
20:00
Catalans-Hull FC
Sat 15th Feb
SL
15:00
Leeds-Wakefield
SL
17:30
St.Helens-Salford
Sun 16th Feb
SL
15:00
Huddersfield-Warrington
Thu 20th Feb
SL
20:00
Wakefield-Hull KR
Fri 21st Feb
SL
20:00
Warrington-Catalans
SL
20:00
Hull FC-Wigan
Sat 22nd Feb
SL
15:00
Salford-Leeds
SL
20:00
Castleford-St.Helens
Sun 23rd Feb
SL
14:30
Leigh-Huddersfield
Fri 28th Feb
SL
20:00
Huddersfield-Hull FC
SL
20:00
Hull KR-Salford
SL
20:00
Leigh-Catalans
Sat 1st Mar
SL
14:30
Wakefield-St.Helens
SL
21:30
Wigan-Warrington
Sun 2nd Mar
SL
15:00
Leeds-Castleford
Thu 6th Mar
SL
20:00
Hull FC-Leigh
Fri 7th Mar
SL
20:00
Castleford-Salford
This is an inplay table and live positions can change.
Mens Betfred Super League XXVIII ROUND : 1
 PLDFADIFFPTS
Wigan 29 768 338 430 48
Hull KR 29 731 344 387 44
Warrington 29 769 351 418 42
Leigh 29 580 442 138 33
Salford 28 556 561 -5 32
St.Helens 28 618 411 207 30
 
Catalans 27 475 427 48 30
Leeds 27 530 488 42 28
Huddersfield 27 468 658 -190 20
Castleford 27 425 735 -310 15
Hull FC 27 328 894 -566 6
LondonB 27 317 916 -599 6
This is an inplay table and live positions can change.
Betfred Championship 2024 ROUND : 1
 PLDFADIFFPTS
Wakefield 27 1032 275 757 52
Toulouse 26 765 388 377 37
Bradford 28 723 420 303 36
York 29 695 501 194 32
Widnes 27 561 502 59 29
Featherstone 27 634 525 109 28
 
Sheffield 26 626 526 100 28
Doncaster 26 498 619 -121 25
Halifax 26 509 650 -141 22
Batley 26 422 591 -169 22
Swinton 28 484 676 -192 20
Barrow 25 442 720 -278 19
Whitehaven 25 437 826 -389 18
Dewsbury 27 348 879 -531 4
Hunslet 1 6 10 -4 0
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