FORUMS > The Sin Bin > World-beating test and trace system |
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| Quote: King Street Cat "Just not true. Which alternative reality do you inhabit?!
rlhttps://www.gov.uk/government/publications/coronavirus-covid-19-maintaining-educational-provision/guidance-for-schools-colleges-and-local-authorities-on-maintaining-educational-provisionrl'"
I am not saying this wasn't the guidance - the implementation was a very different situation.
Are you seriously suggesting parents would rather do home schooling than send their kids to school and everything that went with that i.e. not being able to work or interruption to working from home - really? I would suggest it is you that is living in an alternative universe.
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| Quote: Sal Paradise "
I take you point about the challenges of educating children - but that is no excuse by your own admission the teachers didn't have kids coming in to school so a good majority just switched off.
'"
Hang on Sal, you are re writing history.
It wasn't the teachers that closed the schools, it was a government decision.
As for private schools being old, maybe.
However, they are generally in good order and most importantly, they tend to have more space and fewer pupils.
I will admit to knowing very little about Eton, although I'm happy to take a gamble that their average class size is low 20's and much lower at A level.
Also, the kids, generally, are a little more compliant with the rules, with some exceptions.
Mind you ,even the private schools closed their doors initially, with only the kids of essential workers etc, attending.
As for your point about teachers "switching off" - you stone cold made that up However, I am accepting that there life would be a fair bit easier than their usual day, just as it is/was for most people working from home.
The lucky ones were furloughed and paid not to work at all but, I dont think that teachers were in this category.
I know that this wont stop you having a pop at them though.
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| Quote: Sal Paradise "Are you seriously suggesting parents would rather do home schooling than send their kids to school and everything that went with that i.e. not being able to work or interruption to working from home - really?'"
I can't speak for parents of older children. I'm guessing many were quite fearful of a virus which was still largely not understood back then, and decided to keep them at home for health reasons.
I worked from home with my 3 year old in tow from late March to September. It drove me half mad, and with 3 weeks to go I'd hit a wall, but the alternative was to send her to nursery where she would be masked up, told where and where not to sit and stand, change her clothes 4 times a day, and have to wash her hands every time she touched something. Myself and my wife both qualified as key workers so could have sent her to nursery, but at the end of the day it was merely going to be childcare for 4 months, and I didn't think it was going to be a good first experience of something she had been so excited for. And why would I make her someone else's problem when I was working from home anyway? She's already advanced for her age. Missing out on 4 months of 'childcare' wasn't going to make a blind bit of difference to her development. Had she been older, we'd have probably let her go to school as a key worker kid.
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| Quote: wrencat1873 "The lucky ones were furloughed and paid not to work at all but, I dont think that teachers were in this category.
I know that this wont stop you having a pop at them though.
Sal is another one of those who thinks people working from home were tossing it off all spring and summer. The clue is in the name - WORKING From Home. My job requires an end product to be presented or ordered. If I was getting email requests to produce outcomes, and not delivering them, my employers would soon figure out there was something not right when nothing materialised after the deadline. It seems like he's aiming his pop at people who were actually still working. Maybe it's the furloughed beer and barbecue crowd he should be aiming at?
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| Quote: King Street Cat "Sal is another one of those who thinks people working from home were tossing it off all spring and summer. The clue is in the name - WORKING From Home. My job requires an end product to be presented or ordered. If I was getting email requests to produce outcomes, and not delivering them, my employers would soon figure out there was something not right when nothing materialised after the deadline. It seems like he's aiming his pop at people who were actually still working. Maybe it's the furloughed beer and barbecue crowd he should be aiming at?'"
But the, he would have to take aim at his friends, instead of local government employees. Those who were furloughed were on a good deal, getting paid for doing very little but, alas, many of them are now finding that the job that they had and probably expected to return to, has gone and their "time off" has been made rather more permanent.
Still, lets have a pop at the teachers, it's embarrassing.
Also, would the restrictions need tightening again if "we" hadn't moved circa 2,000,000 students back to Uni, all at the same time.
Yes, they may have missed out on some of the fun of "freshers" but, maybe, the need for tighter restrictions for everyone wouldn't have been so great.
There are literally 1000's of students who have tested positive and although most will be absolutely fine, this really does look like something that could have been done better.
Still, teachers are a soft target
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| Quote: Sal Paradise "Was the HPA the body in charge of the huge IT project in the NHS that ultimately came nothing other than wasting billions of tax payers money?'"
Not that I'm aware of.
The Health Protection Agency was responsible for leading response to outbreaks of infection and planning for outbreaks of infection.
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| Quote: Sal Paradise "The point I made was less teaching happened a conservative estimate suggests a drop of c70% so what were those doing whilst they were still being paid 100% of their salary?
How was it that private schools managed near replication of the in house classroom yet the public sector only managed a fraction? Could it be that because private schools charge they had to step up? Sadly we all pay but that seems to be lost on the teaching profession.
In August the teaching unions were complaining that schools were ready to take pupils back - that's strange - the schools had had 6 months to prepare but actually did nothing for 5 of those months - most teachers enjoyed kicking back, partying etc.'"
Well as you clearly haven’t bothered to read what I wrote not much point trying to converse with you
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| Quote: King Street Cat "Sal is another one of those who thinks people working from home were tossing it off all spring and summer. The clue is in the name - WORKING From Home. My job requires an end product to be presented or ordered. If I was getting email requests to produce outcomes, and not delivering them, my employers would soon figure out there was something not right when nothing materialised after the deadline. It seems like he's aiming his pop at people who were actually still working. Maybe it's the furloughed beer and barbecue crowd he should be aiming at?'"
When did I say that - I had upward of 50 people working from home and still have quite a number given we have depots in critical infection areas. So I know my people were working equally as hard as if they had been in the office.
My staff were doing exactly the same job, the same hours as they would have been in the office - can you say the same for teachers? Kids access to lessons was reduced by c80% - there comes a point where you cannot defend the indefensible.
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| Quote: Sal Paradise "When did I say that - I had upward of 50 people working from home and still have quite a number given we have depots in critical infection areas. So I know my people were working equally as hard as if they had been in the office.
My staff were doing exactly the same job, the same hours as they would have been in the office - can you say the same for teachers? Kids access to lessons was reduced by c80% - there comes a point where you cannot defend the indefensible.'"
I guess that it depends what your staff are doing ??
Is there a direct comparison in their work and that of Teachers or, are you looking for easy targets again
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| Quote: wrencat1873 "I guess that it depends what your staff are doing ??
Is there a direct comparison in their work and that of Teachers or, are you looking for easy targets again
One thing they weren't doing is teaching kids
They are easy targets because most took the money - they were paid 100% not 80% like most on the furlough scheme - and failed to offer our children a similar standard of education they should have expected.
As soon as it was time to return to work they and their union whined like infants about having to earn their money. If the government had done everything the union wanted kids would have never gone back to school.
As I have said you cannot defend the indefensible
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| Quote: Sal Paradise "
As soon as it was time to return to work they and their union whined like infants about having to earn their money.'"
The government was asking them to go into an environment of what would be mostly asymptomatic carriers who are at the best of times difficult to instruct. Requesting reasonable improvements to the normal set up is the least that should have been considered acceptable.
One thing I think we can probably guess from this discussion is that Sal's retention rates are poor - he's an absolute sociopath.
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| Quote: Sal Paradise "One thing they weren't doing is teaching kids
They are easy targets because most took the money - they were paid 100% not 80% like most on the furlough scheme - and failed to offer our children a similar standard of education they should have expected.
As soon as it was time to return to work they and their union whined like infants about having to earn their money. If the government had done everything the union wanted kids would have never gone back to school.
As I have said you cannot defend the indefensible
Did you want the teachers to hand back their salaries ?
Was it they who put the country in lockdown and closed the schools ?
Are they now teaching in what is deemed a "safe" environment ?
And, lets not forget that, for most of the summer, many schools were told and trying to work out just how they could operate with 2 METRE SAFE DISTANCING (later reduced to 1 metre) - again, this was government advice
As I said, east target for right wing Boris lovers.
You need to take aim at those "running" the country and changing the rules twice a week.
I agree that the teachers had an easy time of it, along with millions of other workers that were forced to stay at home.
Just like the rest of the world, the good ones will have used their time wisely and done the right prep and in the teachers case, kept in touch and taught the more vulnerable kids. There will be others right accross the range who tossed it off as much as they could.
It's hard to teach when the school is closed.
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| I agree with you the government's handling of Covid has been shambolic at best a dereliction of duty at worst. It seems they have learned nothing - they are going introduce further restrictions which have proved in other areas not to work - its bonkers.
You can't compare teachers to say retail hospitality workers - even with schools closed teaching was still possible not easy to work in a shop/bar/restaurant/theatre that has been ordered to close
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| Quote: Sal Paradise "I agree with you the government's handling of Covid has been shambolic at best a dereliction of duty at worst. It seems they have learned nothing - they are going introduce further restrictions which have proved in other areas not to work - its bonkers.
You can't compare teachers to say retail hospitality workers - even with schools closed teaching was still possible not easy to work in a shop/bar/restaurant/theatre that has been ordered to close'"
Sal, if he schools are closed and pupils and teachers sent home, who do you expect the teachers to teach ?
Some did carry on working, on a rota system to look after the vulnerable kids and those of "essential workers" but, apart from prep and remembering that the summer break was just around the corner, what did you want/expect them to do ?
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| Quote: wrencat1873 "Sal, if he schools are closed and pupils and teachers sent home, who do you expect the teachers to teach ?
Some did carry on working, on a rota system to look after the vulnerable kids and those of "essential workers" but, apart from prep and remembering that the summer break was just around the corner, what did you want/expect them to do ?'"
Instead of their parents trying to home school them - surely teachers could have either prepared work and either been on line to answer queries or even better have zoom lessons or you tube lessons if they were too afraid of the behaviour of the children away from the classroom. There was a lot more that could/should have been done - look at the private school education delivery and compare that to the public sector delivery?
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