I thought you weren't debating?
You know as well as I do that, after 10 years of austerity and with local services creaking under the strain of 10 years of cut backs, immigrants became a very easy target and that this was used by Farage & Co to stoke a climate which made people want significant change.

We agree that there had to be a level of control and that the UK was "stiffed" by he EU when they asked for help.

However, where we are poles apart is in our prediction for the UK's future outside of such a huge trading bloc

What stinks the house out is that the Tories are now prepared, at least in word, to invest in all of those cities which they had butchered and had the same or any sensible investment been forthcoming, as opposed to the austerity cuts, there simply wouldn't have been the same outcry about immigration. Some would say that we have all been played and some wouldn't know, due to Brexit blindness.

So says our little right wing capitalist who can’t hack it in the private sector, but is first in line with his hand out for public sector work.

And I bet you don’t carry your own public liability insurance.

Some capitalist

Cloudy in ull to.

Not disputing that. But are you saying he wasn't communist and at times Leninist, Stalinist and a devotee of Marx? He was, as you should know.


I'm not sure why one conflates with the other, but ok.


The roots are a man with base communist ideals, even if he drifted from the Italian Communist Party. That much is reflected in much of the Ventotene Manifesto, clear for all to see. He was anti-fascist but also anti-pre-WW1 European aristocratic rule.

Besides, more relevant than bickering over the details of the roots of the EU, are where the EU and its member states will eventually end up. And that's what I disagree with.


Until the point you found yourself brainwashed by the 'progressive' EU agenda, probably yes.

Now that the mist of bull is starting to clear away, is there anyone on here that believes we're going to be financially better off as a result of brexit? If so, what makes you think that way, and what caveats, if any, are attached to that belief?

Boris Johnson believes unless of course he is lying to himself because he has no problem doing so to the rest of us.

IF the UK's negotiators manage to secure a FTA without any financial contribution to the EU then, we will be better off, which is the very reason that the EU wont agree to one and despite the Tory's huge parliamentary majority, there will still be huge pressure on government form the range of business leaders, all of whom will want a decent/preferential deal for their sector.
One thing that really did make me chuckle was Grimsby, despite voting 70/30 in favour of "leave" asking for dispensation to protect it's fishing industry and associated businesses - you really couldn't make it up.
My message to them would be, you voted out and now you must live with the consequences.
The big losers here are of course the remain areas of N. Ireland and Scotland who, despite voting "remain", have to leave along with the rest of the UK.
Just like Austerity, we're all in it together - although like much of the Tory mantra, we know that that simply wasn't true.

An Englishman, Irishman and Scotsman walk into a pub; the Englishman didn't like it, so they all had to leave.

Yes because the Englishman was the only one with any brass!!

Sorry but, he just said that he had some but, in actual fact, his pockets were empty, just like the other promises that he'd made

Your waffling again

Possibly you were waffling to Wilzay when you described your transition from small flat to two up two down in Leigh

Can’t be bothered digging your post out

So your not the wealthy Tory you big yourself up to be, just another little ten bob Tory wannabe , door to door salesperson type