FORUMS > The Sin Bin > General Election 8th June |
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| Quote: wire-quin "Bren are there any positives you can see in this country? You really do dwell on the negative'"
Politically? At present, it's hard to see any - the Tories are making a grab for power that will let them continue to savage the less fortunate and the services they rely on with even fewer checks and balances; Brexit is a timebomb for the economy; the country is more divided than ever before. And it's raining.
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Moderator | 31963 | |
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| Well an early election at least means Corbyn and McDonnell will resign after June 8th. They've already committed some time ago to going if they lose.
Hardly much of a silver lining but there you go.
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| Quote: wrencat1873 "You ought to be a Tory spin doctor.
Pensioners ARE the only group of people to have increased living standards since the Tories returned to power.
However, the young may have some great opportunities, as do the people buying a Euromillions ticket but, it's about the chances of them succeeding in the current economic climate.
The economy, having been stoked by house price inflation for too many years under successive Labour governments, is now perilously held up under staggering levels of personal debt.
Students are carrying £50,000 + debts into their adult lives and we have more zero hours contracts than ever before.
Teacher, along with other local government employees may be on reasonable salaries but, these have been almost frozen over the last six years and have increased at less than inflation nad average pay is 25/25K, not the 37K that you have fabricated.
The NHS is utterly superb but, even the governments own figures show that it is performing less well than it was 6 years ago and the argument about it being wasteful could have been levelled at it at any time in its history -savings can be made in ANY large organisation.
There are some extremely well paid medics and the "scam" that top consultants are able to work (employed by the NHS but, able to carry out private work on top of their "normal" job seems fundamentally wrong, akin to a certain Mr Osborne - full time MP but with a number of other jobs at the same time).
As I said, your "spin" is very positive but not entirely accurate.'"
Your negativity is duly noted - to address your points:
The opportunities for young are greater than they were when I was leaving education - they can travel/work abroad, they can engage in further education, there are vocational opportunities that are now considered to have equal value to uni. If the kids are willing to get stuck in they will succeed its about desire and application - the economic situation is as good as it has been for since the crash.
If there were no jobs people would not be able to borrow so it suggests more people have jobs under this government - low interest rates rather than house inflation is what is driving spending - a rise in interest rates even 1/2% would see a huge drop i personal debt accumulation.
Who introduced tuition fees? I agree I think it morally wrong - but that is what you get when the higher echelons of Socialism go "I'm all right Jack - you are not going to get the benefits I had, can't have you challenging my cosy lifestyle" and they are supposed to be the party of the people!!
Teachers begin on £23k - £28k in London so I would suggest your average of £25k is a fabrication especially when you consider the impact of dept. heads and head teacher salaries. In 2006 the average was c£31k that's over a decade ago.
The NHS is quandry - if you allow anyone to live here from the EU you will increase its customer base massively. Add to that ageing population and new treatments/higher survival rates and all you get is a money hungry beast that could consume the whole GDP of the UK and it still would not be enough. So what are you proposing - we all agree it needs more money, the Tories have put in £6bn extra. Labour is saying all staff are going to get more money where is that coming from - inheritance will only go so far but it seems Labour are going to scrap it to pay for everything!! The NHS is one of the biggest employers in Europe in 2015 its annual wage bill was £45bn so 1% is an additional £450m if you don't employ anymore staff which the Tories have. So what is your solution?
So you are saying surgeons can only work in the NHS - why? they are doing their required hours within their NHS contract what they do outside of that is surely their own business? Are you saying anyone who uses their skill set outside of their normal job should be stopped or is it just surgeons/toffs? Ok for a plumber to do jobs on the side but not MPs/surgeons. So teachers who give private lessons should also be stopped?
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International Star | 17982 | |
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| Quote: Sal Paradise "Your negativity is duly noted - to address your points
More spin then.
Young people able to travel and work abroad ?
We've just voted out on the EU, which will massively reduce opportunities to live and work abroad.
Borrowing
This wasnt relaxed based on the state of the economy.
A solution had to be found for spiraling house prices and there has been a gradual but substantial relaxation of borrowing regulations, which now allows 3 x joint income and has increased mortgage terms to 35 years.
The cost of borrowing is at an historical low and whilst interest rates are so low and people can service their debt, this isn't a major problem.
However, interest rates can only go in one direction and just a small amount of inflation in the system could see a half or maybe full point increase in interest rates, which would be horrific for those people who are "over exposed" - we are sitting on a financial time bomb, again.
I'm sure that you will recall the melee when we had the banking crash a few years ago, with overdrafts cancelled and loans "called in".
Of course, the more likely outcome will be another fecking recession, which will be just great/
Teachers
Yo said average salaries not average London salaries.
Look again and come back when you have the true figures. there's no point on discussing salaries if you deliberately pick the highest range to compare against.
NHS
We either need to wave the white flag and limit the "services" that The NHS offers or, increase funding, which will have to come form increased taxation.
Sadly, only The Libdems have got the balls to propose this.
Labour and The Conservatives go on pretending that it will be ok because they will do a better job of running the service and they deliberately shy away from telling the general public that if we want the NHS to continue and be able to offer "new" treatments, it will cost each one of us more money.
Consultants.
I dont have a problem with them carrying out "extra" work but if they are full time and "over worked" (as we keep reading about), how can they carry out the additional operations.
They should be FULLY employed by the NHS and helping to reduce the back log of operations.
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| Quote: wrencat1873 "More spin then.
Young people able to travel and work abroad ?
We've just voted out on the EU, which will massively reduce opportunities to live and work abroad.
Borrowing
This wasnt relaxed based on the state of the economy.
A solution had to be found for spiraling house prices and there has been a gradual but substantial relaxation of borrowing regulations, which now allows 3 x joint income and has increased mortgage terms to 35 years.
The cost of borrowing is at an historical low and whilst interest rates are so low and people can service their debt, this isn't a major problem.
However, interest rates can only go in one direction and just a small amount of inflation in the system could see a half or maybe full point increase in interest rates, which would be horrific for those people who are "over exposed" - we are sitting on a financial time bomb, again.
I'm sure that you will recall the melee when we had the banking crash a few years ago, with overdrafts cancelled and loans "called in".
Of course, the more likely outcome will be another fecking recession, which will be just great/
You want to stay in Europe what does that mean for house prices it only means one thing - increases, simple economics supply and demand. You can build a lot more houses but where nobody seems to want to use green belt so let's congest our inner cities even more!! Social housing is an answer but where do you build it?
I agree with you on interest rates a gradual raising of interest rates will slow down/reduce borrowing but there are obvious consequences to that - a slow down/recession. Its not a time bomb it is much harder to get a mortgage than it was and negative equity is the issue it was as the days of 100% mortgages are not what they were.
Teachers you cannot exclude London from the average the minimum outside of London is c£23k so again I would suggest your £25k is well under stated.
NHS - I agree you either want the quality or you exclude certain areas as they did with Dentistry. Where do you draw the line or how much is enough. I would not be very keen to donate more so the NHS' customers can abuse it even more!! Wherever you have a view that a service is free then customers will equate that value. Perhaps if more was done to stop customer abuse the NHS e.g. people using A&E when a visit to a chemist would suffice, appointments not being kept etc. could run far more efficiently and wasted monies could be paid to the employees?
So are you suggesting surgeons should work more than the 37.5 hour week they are contracted, which I am sure most will do, just to stop them using their skills to enhance their own income. Perhaps you feel the same about what you do for a living?
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| Quote: Sal Paradise "You want to stay in Europe what does that mean for house prices it only means one thing - increases, simple economics supply and demand. You can build a lot more houses but where nobody seems to want to use green belt so let's congest our inner cities even more!! Social housing is an answer but where do you build it?
I agree with you on interest rates a gradual raising of interest rates will slow down/reduce borrowing but there are obvious consequences to that - a slow down/recession. Its not a time bomb it is much harder to get a mortgage than it was and negative equity is the issue it was as the days of 100% mortgages are not what they were.
Teachers you cannot exclude London from the average the minimum outside of London is c£23k so again I would suggest your £25k is well under stated.
NHS - I agree you either want the quality or you exclude certain areas as they did with Dentistry. Where do you draw the line or how much is enough. I would not be very keen to donate more so the NHS' customers can abuse it even more!! Wherever you have a view that a service is free then customers will equate that value. Perhaps if more was done to stop customer abuse the NHS e.g. people using A&E when a visit to a chemist would suffice, appointments not being kept etc. could run far more efficiently and wasted monies could be paid to the employees?
So are you suggesting surgeons should work more than the 37.5 hour week they are contracted, which I am sure most will do, just to stop them using their skills to enhance their own income. Perhaps you feel the same about what you do for a living?'"
Dont want to derail the Election thread but, staying in Europe with some controls on immigration, which, lets face it, is the only sensible way forward and the EU powerbrokers will eventually do something about it (assuming that the EU continues after the French and German elections).
House prices will continue to rise at a reasonable level, which is a good thing.
The "spike" in house pricing occurred long before EU immigration was "popular.
With some level of control on immigration and especially as we have now voted "out" there is every likelihood of some stability and maybe falling house prices - commercial property in London has already begun to fall.
Teachers pay scales are 22,467 - 33,180 outside London and 28,098 - 38241 in Greater London
Please explain how this can possibly equate to your "average pay" of £37,000 ?? and if you include teaching assistants in the figures the average would plummet.
Going back to surgeons, they should be properly paid to work solely in the NHS and not feel the need to do "outside work", the system is wrong.
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International Chairman | 18060 | No Team Selected |
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| Quote: wrencat1873 "Dont want to derail the Election thread but, staying in Europe with some controls on immigration, which, lets face it, is the only sensible way forward and the EU powerbrokers will eventually do something about it (assuming that the EU continues after the French and German elections).
House prices will continue to rise at a reasonable level, which is a good thing.
The "spike" in house pricing occurred long before EU immigration was "popular.
With some level of control on immigration and especially as we have now voted "out" there is every likelihood of some stability and maybe falling house prices - commercial property in London has already begun to fall.
Teachers pay scales are 22,467 - 33,180 outside London and 28,098 - 38241 in Greater London
Please explain how this can possibly equate to your "average pay" of £37,000 ?? and if you include teaching assistants in the figures the average would plummet.
Going back to surgeons, they should be properly paid to work solely in the NHS and not feel the need to do "outside work", the system is wrong.'"
Yes if you can pay the surgeons what they earn in private practise great but I doubt you will, especially given the fees are in the most part funded by private medical insurance - individual sacrificing to provide for themselves.
Teachers pay also includes department heads and head teachers - do you think that increases/decreases the average? Teaching assistants - why not include caretakers - come on get real.
How are you going to have controls and stay in the EEC - free movement of labour is one of the main pillars of the whole European project.
Agree about house pricing - simple supply and demand proposition. As I said if you reduce immigration you supress demand so prices will rise at a slower rate
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| So, May has refused to rule out removing the triple lock on pensions. I wonder how that will effect the decision of older voters, especially when you consider its the Tories main demographic.
Johnson goes all juvenile with personal attacks on Corbyn, as well as pretty much confirming the uk will increase their role in the Syrian war.
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Club Captain | 973 | No Team Selected |
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| Quote: "Johnson goes all juvenile with personal attacks on Corbyn'"
Was this deliberate and planned do you think or just another Johnsonism? He's probably the only MP that could get away with that in this day and age.
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Moderator | 31963 | |
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Dec 2001 | 23 years | |
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| He never going to keep quiet for long the media love him as he's always good for a quote.
I'm not sure people take him seriously.
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| I can't help thinking that Johnson's affable idiot persona has been permanently damaged by his barefaced lies about the NHS during the Brexit campaign; the BBC and Sky news might hang on his every word, but I suspect the public might well be bored of his schtick.
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| Johnson is one of the cleverest MP's under estimate him at your peril.
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| Quote: bren2k "I can't help thinking that Johnson's affable idiot persona has been permanently damaged by his barefaced lies about the NHS during the Brexit campaign; the BBC and Sky news might hang on his every word, but I suspect the public might well be bored of his schtick.'"
It's worrying that May has chosen him as her Foreign Secretary, a role that usually requires high levels of diplomacy.
Boris is quite likeable but, he's the "school" clown and whilst he also appears to have a sharp mind, he just cant control his juvenile outbursts.
At least he's nor Prime Minister.
Can you imagine if we had ended up with the "dream ticket" of Farage and Boris !!
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Moderator | 31963 | |
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| Quote: Sal Paradise "Johnson is one of the cleverest MP's under estimate him at your peril.'"
He knows a lot but his judgement is very open to question.
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| With the pitiful growth figures for the first quarter that have been published today, perhaps May is trying to get 5 more years before the economy goes into reverse.
Some people rate her but she is a glorified wind bag, full of rhetoric but without any actions to back up her claims of a "fair" society.
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