FORUMS > The Sin Bin > Proof the "Trickle Down" effect is a myth? |
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| Quote: JerryChicken "...or are paid by companies who rely on the public sector to provide the contracts that employ the NMW workers ?
There are some very large businesses out there who rely almost 100% on government contracts, they are public sector companies hiding behind a cloak of "light government".'"
Agreed - however to paint big business as a bunch of baddies is a bit unfair and inaccurate.
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| Quote: Sal Paradise "Agreed - however to paint big business as a bunch of baddies is a bit unfair and inaccurate.'"
As it is to paint all benefit claimants as scroungers or making fraudulent claims.
What remains the case however is just the illegal aspects of the "tax gap" is far in excess of what benefit fraud costs the country and most of that isn't down to individual tax avoidance and includes things like non-payment of VAT.
It is also true I think most people feel legal tax avoidance such as that undertaken by companies like IKEA pretty firmly puts them in the "baddies" corner as well simply because you don't have to be a genius to work out the avoidance measures they take were never intended to be used to garner them such big tax breaks. The fact these measures can still be used and have not been closed off is perplexing given the effort put into chasing a far smaller amount of money from benefits cheats.
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| Quote: DaveO "As it is to paint all benefit claimants as scroungers or making fraudulent claims.
What remains the case however is just the illegal aspects of the "tax gap" is far in excess of what benefit fraud costs the country and most of that isn't down to individual tax avoidance and includes things like non-payment of VAT.
It is also true I think most people feel legal tax avoidance such as that undertaken by companies like IKEA pretty firmly puts them in the "baddies" corner as well simply because you don't have to be a genius to work out the avoidance measures they take were never intended to be used to garner them such big tax breaks. The fact these measures can still be used and have not been closed off is perplexing given the effort put into chasing a far smaller amount of money from benefits cheats.'"
Agreed - tax is a difficult one unless you have a universal system you will always find beneficial differentials between tax regimes. Whilst we might moan Ikea do you not think our multi-national companies are exploiting similar loop holes in the taxation systems of other countries? swings and roundabouts?
Encouraging business should be a government objective part of which is having a tax system that doesn't penalise whilst extracting the maximum revenue.
On the tax gap I have highlighted some areas that need to be considered before you blame the whole lot on big business e.g. business failure.
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| Proof the trickle down effect is not a myth:
Many years ago several successful and wealthy entrepreneurs set up a business which proved a success over the years, growing and generating more profits the owners. The owners decided to expand the business to take full advantage of demand and generate further profits for the owners. As a result they expanded the workforce. I was one of the employees they hired and because of the success of the owners, motivated by the desire for higher profits, I have a job which allows me to afford a place to live, own a car, travel around the world etc.
In addition, I am able to get free healthcare, access an excellent public transport system, drive on a fantastic road network and live in a safe society thanks to the excellent work of the police and military. All of this is thanks to the taxes paid by the rich, the 1% of the population that generate 30% of taxes.
Income inequality is meaningless. All that matters is that the poor get richer. Poor British people today are far better off than at any time in our history. When we talk of poverty today we mean that somebody only has an Iphone 4 instead of an Iphone 5.
Poland has far lower income inequality than the UK, yet that hasn't stopped hundreds of thousands of Poles moving to the UK. It seems that they are willing to trade equality for the UK minimum wage which allows them to live in their own home, own their own car, eat out regularly, go on holiday several times per year.
All those people who say that wealth is relative blah blah blah and the rising gap between the rich and poor is something that we must do something about, I ask where would you rather live:
Niger (which scores very highly for equality) or the UK (which doesn't score as well)?
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| Quote: Dally "The asnswer is for individuals to organise themselves collectively and lobby governmeny
Exactly. There is one party of politicians that only represents themselves and people whose lifestyles are funded by the taxpayer - welfare claimants and public sector workers. There is one party of politicians that only represents themselves and European bureaucrats. There is one party of politicians that only represents themselves and the super rich.
None of these parties represent the ordinary British people and yet the overwhelming majority of British voters still vote for them even though they know that the politicians of these parties have nothing to offer other than expenses fraud and unwavering support for the apparatus of corporate government.
If people want change and politicians that will offer something different to corruption, they should be voting Green or UKIP. Not for the same old parties of the Establishment.
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| Quote: David Titan "Proof the trickle down effect is not a myth
Thats very funny, well done and thank you for finding the login details for this comedy character you created some time ago in order to provide some light entertainment to the rest of us, its much appreciated.
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| Quote: JerryChicken "Thats very funny, well done and thank you for finding the login details for this comedy character you created some time ago in order to provide some light entertainment to the rest of us, its much appreciated.'"
A pathetic response Jerry to some well made points.
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| Quote: Dally "A pathetic response Jerry to some well made points.'"
I'm sorry that I upset you with my hurtful comment but well done anyway on rediscovering the login details for your comedy character and for taking the time to put together such a fine script in the style of your alter ego - where did you lose the login details, were they down the back of the setee ?
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| It's not me old boy.
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| It's not me old boy.
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| Quote: JerryChicken "I'm sorry that I upset you with my hurtful comment but well done anyway on rediscovering the login details for your comedy character and for taking the time to put together such a fine script in the style of your alter ego - where did you lose the login details, were they down the back of the setee ?'"
They were "off-site".
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| Quote: JerryChicken "Thats very funny, well done and thank you for finding the login details for this comedy character you created some time ago in order to provide some light entertainment to the rest of us, its much appreciated.'"
I see that you have provided no counter-argument to where yourself and I, not to mention where all the other people who are currently employed, are going to get jobs (which provide us with the money to live our lives) if not from wealthy successful people.
Nor have you provided a riposte to the common-sense assertion that relative wealth is irrelevant, and therefore income inequality, whilst it is absolute wealth that is important.
I can only assume from your failure to respond to the propositions put forward that you have nothing of any intellectual significance to contribute. Once again the politics of hate, division and envy of the left have failed to hold up in the wake of logic, common sense and rational thought. I see you have therefore resorted to one of the default options for leftists of patronising. At least you didn't choose the other default option of declaring me to be racist, homophobic, sexist or xenophobic.
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| Quote: David Titan "I see that you have provided no counter-argument to where yourself and I, not to mention where all the other people who are currently employed, are going to get jobs (which provide us with the money to live our lives) if not from wealthy successful people.
Nor have you provided a riposte to the common-sense assertion that relative wealth is irrelevant, and therefore income inequality, whilst it is absolute wealth that is important.
I can only assume from your failure to respond to the propositions put forward that you have nothing of any intellectual significance to contribute. Once again the politics of hate, division and envy of the left have failed to hold up in the wake of logic, common sense and rational thought. I see you have therefore resorted to one of the default options for leftists of patronising. At least you didn't choose the other default option of declaring me to be racist, homophobic, sexist or xenophobic.'"
You're really good, but why did it take you 32 minutes to log out and then back in again?
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| Did you really expect a member of the chattering classes on here to respond do you?
According to Jerry, Mintball, Mr Fish, Graham everything in this country is rubbish - makes me wonder why they haven't emigrated to somewhere like Sweden which appears to offer the Utopian society they so clearly crave.
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| Quote: Sal Paradise "Did you really expect a member of the chattering classes on here to respond do you?
According to Jerry, Mintball, Mr Fish, Graham everything in this country is rubbish - makes me wonder why they haven't emigrated to somewhere like Sweden which appears to offer the Utopian society they so clearly crave.'"
Because a moaner here would be a moaner in Sweden.
This country is a land of opportunity but most Brits just don,t see it. I recall in the 1980's that there had become either 100 or 1'000 "Patel" millionaires here. They had only been here 5 minutes - most refugees from Idi Amin. There is little wrong here other than people with poor attitudes and a weak work ethic.
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